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Crux Positions

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The middle one for sure! That is where I am nailed in my movie and the wood washer covers up the Velcro strap attached to the crossbeam clip.

Second choice would be the bottom one. It certianly seems the most cruel of the three and I saw it used in a crucifixion movie/video this past year and it looked pretty good.

The first one is OK and the most traditonal of the three. It should probably include ropes about the arms and wrists and possibly even the torso for more weight support.

GR
 
Ok one the feet nailing I would do #1 but with the legs a bit more bent. While it would be possible for the condemned to close her legs it would be even more painful than just being nailed. As for where to hammer the nails, the palms are out unless they are going to also be roped at the wrists. Nailing midway through the forearms would be too merciful as the condemned's weight would rip the would the arm open until the spike got to wrist.
The spread of the arms should be about forty-five degrees above horizontal, forming a ninety degree "V". Any wider and I fear the the condemned would die too quickly. Any closer just doesn't do it for me...

A couple other observatiothat raise questions in my little mind.

When Makar does indoor crux the crossbar is flush with the stipe. Outdoors the bar is fixed to the face of the upright. Has any of his models done both ways and commented whether one is worse than the other?

Also the Yusseby's Crux Intro shows a much shorter stipe than many depictions of crucifixions. I think he's probably right because in the days before chainsaws sawed wood was an expensive commodity and labor intensive. While it would be humiliating to be hung naked high above the crowd, imagine being nailed while you hang eye to eye with people that have come to watch you die. And then there is the frustration of looking down known that but for one spike through your feet you could relieve much of your agony by just standing on the ground!

THT
 
"Two and three are the most likely places to drive in the nails. Through the palms would probably hurt more, but the weight of her body would tear the hands loose without rope support. "

i think that a nail through the wrist (2) hurts much more. driven through the arm (3), it would tear the flesh, and the nail slides between the bones to position (2). horrible. but probably, a more quick death. (the executioner who does this, will be punished by his commanders...)
 
ive been crucified only once but when i was my arms were in the number 1 position straught out to my side but my legs were bent so my feet were flat against the cross. i thought that was the common method was i wrong. i know by being tied that way i could press my legs against the cross to push my self up when the pain in my shoulders became unbearable. Ive only seen one pic of a crucifixion with the legs tied behind the cross but that looks interesting and painful i would think since i dont think you could push up from that position, might be fun to try


erika
 
Leg Positions: Numbers 1 & 2 have the advantage of only requiring one nail. Number 6 is probably best & most realistic although the knees should be bent. This would allow the victim to stand & take strain off her arms while causing the legs to open up when she takes the strain off her legs & hangs by the arms. Numbers 7 & 8 are more humiliating but I doubt that the legs could be used to support the body weight in that position.

Arm Positions: Numbers 4 & 8 put too much strain on the arms & would lead to a quicker death. Numbers 5 & 6 would lead to the shoulders being dislocated very quickly, extremely painful but resulting in a rather quick death afterward. Experiments by medical experts have shown that number 1 leads to cramping & respiratory distress rather quickly. Number3 would put tremendous strain on the shoulders, not sure if the body weight could be supported in that position. Number 2 is probably the most realistic, though the arms should be bent a bit more to allow the victim to relax & let the arms support the weight for a time then rise up & let the legs take over. Number 7 might also prolong the death. I'm not sure what the effect of number 3 would be.

Where to hammer the nails: Number 3 is out, too much blood loss & not enough support. I'm still undecided on the wrist vs palm debate. I think number 1 could work if a washer is used & I think number 2 carries too much danger of a rapid bleed out.

Anyway, that's my two cents.
 
202114 said:
One more question: Where to hammer the nails? (In the case of feet it's quite obvious.)
[attachment=0:3abtp5np]1.jpg[/attachment:3abtp5np]
Click to expand...
When I was crucified my arms and legs were in the #1 position with my feet tied to the post and small nails hammerd into my palms.I was crucified for about 30min!
 
202114 said:
All right, here is the next question: arm positions.
[attachment=0:3fesuixq]1.jpg[/attachment:3fesuixq]
Click to expand...
I would pick no. 2 with the arms at anywhere from a 20 to 45-degree angle when the legs are in the spreadeagle down position - for my crucifixion (yes, I'm a guy), of course, and also if I were spectating. I think it was the most common and had the best effect on the crowds - the genitals and the anus (plugged or no) would be exposed and the pain in the crucified's arms and shoulders from being "racked" on the cross would be intense! The body would form the shape of a martini glass when hanging and a "T" when standing with the legs. Higher than 45 degrees and the victim has difficulty breathing. I hate the arms directly overhead - always a quick death. If I were commander and my executioners did this too often, I'd say to them, "Do YOU want to be crucified? HAHAHA" Lower, the victim has an easier time breathing.
One more question: Where to hammer the nails? (In the case of feet it's quite obvious.)
Click to expand...
To me it's obvious: No. 2.
 
When I do Poser art, my preference is to position the arms and legs so as to allow the victim the most freedom of movement possible - to my thinking, her dance can be more entertaining that way. As far as the arms, I position them at a 30 degree angle with the vertical when she is hanging by her wrists. That turns out to be about elbow-width apart, easy for an executioner because the victim's own body is the measuring device. This minimizes the stress on the arms and would contribute toward a slower death.

I always assume that the feet would be nailed with the victim already hanging by her wrists, and I place the feet high, with the heels maybe six inches or less below her butt, but not high enough for her to sit on. Again, this would enable her to raise herself higher - greater range of motion. If the stipes is round rather than square, then her knees will be angled apart, which would be more humiliating for the victim and more of a spectacle for the onlookers.

As far as nail placement in the wrists, I place them so that they would pass between the small bones of the wrist. These are actually in the heel of the hand; the wrist itself, where it bends, is the joint between the bones of the forearm and the beginning of these small bones. Placing a nail in that joint or further up the arm would limit the victim's motion, some of which requires rotation of the forearm/wrist during raising/lowering and particularly when she leans forward. You can see this if you study the motions of Makar's models - elbows point down when they are hanging, or raised with their backs against the cross, but when they lean forward, the elbows rotate to point towards the back. Their forearms twist to allow them to lean forward like that.


Jedakk
 
Jedakk, we all know your style well, and I personally think, your works are fantastic, but from all of your opinions, I think, we can agree in that, this is the most popular pose:
[attachment=0:t8rz5giy]1.jpg[/attachment:t8rz5giy]
 

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I think you hit the nail right on the head with this 202114! I like the way you went about it. That position would suit me fine for my own crucifixion or that of others. Only one tiny tuning I would do is not have the one leg cocked so much.

I do agree with you about he erotic aspects of the shorter dance space. When I see the human form rise up too high and sink so low, so as to make the knees jut straight out, it takes away from the the small little details of the human anatomy and cross presence. I'm not sure I expressed that right, but maybe you catch my meaning. With so much dance space, too much attention is paid to the extreme motion of the victim, rather than the beatuy of the human body itself. (still not expressing that right)

I like the idea of a more static form.

I don't like the victim swaying from one side to the other much either. After awhile it gets to be too much of a motion thing, like and acrobat.

Still too, I don't care for the images and videos of the victim hanging static with those big suspenson cuffs. They are great looking gals hanging from some good looking crosses, but the suspension cuffs ruin it.

GR
 
Julia said:
But unfortunately I never have died in that way. So without such an experience it's hard to say...

Best regards,
Julia
Click to expand...

... And with such an experience, you cannot say anymore, if you die :)
You can live this experience of crucifixion for a moment, and after to tell us how it was.
 
chelior said:
Julia said:
But unfortunately I never have died in that way. So without such an experience it's hard to say...

Best regards,
Julia
Click to expand...

... And with such an experience, you cannot say anymore, if you die :)
You can live this experience of crucifixion for a moment, and after to tell us how it was.
Click to expand...


Indeed it's really a dilemma, isn't it ...
So I have to do my best to survive my "research works".

On the other hand ... most probably the very last hours would produce the most interesting experiences ;-)

Cheers,
Julia
 
[quote="Julia
Indeed it's really a dilemma, isn't it ...
So I have to do my best to survive my "research works".

On the other hand ... most probably the very last hours would produce the most interesting experiences ;-)

Cheers,
Julia[/quote]

Sure !
Until now, I have not encountered many women who wish to die in this way, or simply to life this experience.
But I think it's not easy to find anybody ready to grant your wish, to carry out your dream, for the last hours of your life !
 
chelior said:
[quote="Julia
Indeed it's really a dilemma, isn't it ...
So I have to do my best to survive my "research works".

On the other hand ... most probably the very last hours would produce the most interesting experiences ;-)

Cheers,
Julia
Click to expand...

Sure !
Until now, I have not encountered many women who wish to die in this way, or simply to life this experience.
But I think it's not easy to find anybody ready to grant your wish, to carry out your dream, for the last hours of your life ![/quote]


Yes, of course you are right :)
So don't worry, I'll do my best to live forever ...
In every case thanks a lot for your kind anxiety for my health!

By the way, did I really say (or write) that I would "like" the experience?
Probably I'm just extremely curious, possibly too curious ;-)

Best regards,
Julia
 
Julia said:
chelior said:
[quote="Julia
Indeed it's really a dilemma, isn't it ...
So I have to do my best to survive my "research works".

On the other hand ... most probably the very last hours would produce the most interesting experiences ;-)

Cheers,
Julia
Click to expand...

Sure !
Until now, I have not encountered many women who wish to die in this way, or simply to life this experience.
But I think it's not easy to find anybody ready to grant your wish, to carry out your dream, for the last hours of your life !
Click to expand...


Yes, of course you are right :)
So don't worry, I'll do my best to live forever ...
In every case thanks a lot for your kind anxiety for my health!

By the way, did I really say (or write) that I would "like" the experience?
Probably I'm just extremely curious, possibly too curious ;-)

Best regards,
Julia[/quote]Hi Julia,take it from someone who has experenced it...it was not fun at all!!!!
 
cmeinsen said:
Julia said:
chelior said:
[quote="Julia
Indeed it's really a dilemma, isn't it ...
So I have to do my best to survive my "research works".

On the other hand ... most probably the very last hours would produce the most interesting experiences ;-)

Cheers,
Julia
Click to expand...

Sure !
Until now, I have not encountered many women who wish to die in this way, or simply to life this experience.
But I think it's not easy to find anybody ready to grant your wish, to carry out your dream, for the last hours of your life !
Click to expand...


Yes, of course you are right :)
So don't worry, I'll do my best to live forever ...
In every case thanks a lot for your kind anxiety for my health!

By the way, did I really say (or write) that I would "like" the experience?
Probably I'm just extremely curious, possibly too curious ;-)

Best regards,
Julia
Click to expand...
Hi Julia,take it from someone who has experenced it...it was not fun at all!!!![/quote]


Dear Connie,
of course I feel very, very sorry about the horrible experience you had to endure.
And I'm really grateful for your advice.

But don't worry, I'm not as crazy as it seems to seem ...
So it's really not necessary to arrange a requiem for me. :-(
Instead of this I dare to quote his majesty Golden Ruler who has written "This is fun! Good thread!" I guess he is right.

But in every case thank you Connie very much for your care!

Best wishes,
Julia
 
I agree with you and GR, this is a fun thread and I have made a lot of friends here.I know that you are not crazy and I wish only the best for you and I hope that we can be friends too!Kisses!connie
 
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