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The Scapegoat

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I've only scanned over parts of this so far, but it looks to me like a really well-written and thought out story! The only problem I noticed is that it's formatted so tightly in single-spaced text that it's really hard to read. After the first seven pages, I went back and reformatted the whole thing to open up the line spacing a bit and insert more space between paragraphs. I also converted all of the text to an Arial sans-serif font that is more readable to me. Another possible issue is that not everyone has MS Word and some may not be able to open this file. I suggest converting it to PDF if you can. If you would like any help with this, contact me and I'll be glad to assist.

Some technical points:
  • I doubt that the Romans were likely to have used only one nail through both feet. That is what is shown in religious art, but according to Plautus, in his play "Mostellaria," four nails were used. In addition, I did some stress analysis myself on the single-nail scenario and found that it would require a nail 5/8" square at the point that it entered the wood to support a 150 lb. man. This would mean that the nail would be about 3/4" square just under the head, based on the taper I have measured in examples of Roman nails in the British Museum in London and in photographs. There are actually a lot of those old Roman nails still around. Anyway, a nail that size would really wreck a person's foot and could cause them to expire sooner than it appears the Romans would have wanted.
  • I also doubt that a victim would be cognizant right up to the end. Crucifixion was evidently such a slow process that Seneca's mention of it wringing the victims' strength out drop by drop was likely accurate.

That being said, it is your fantasy and your story and you should write it as you wish, not necessarily to please others. The rest of us will appreciate you sharing it with us.

Jedakk
 
jedakk said:
I've only scanned over parts of this so far, but it looks to me like a really well-written and thought out story! The only problem I noticed is that it's formatted so tightly in single-spaced text that it's really hard to read. After the first seven pages, I went back and reformatted the whole thing to open up the line spacing a bit and insert more space between paragraphs. I also converted all of the text to an Arial sans-serif font that is more readable to me. Another possible issue is that not everyone has MS Word and some may not be able to open this file. I suggest converting it to PDF if you can. If you would like any help with this, contact me and I'll be glad to assist.

Some technical points:
  • I doubt that the Romans were likely to have used only one nail through both feet. That is what is shown in religious art, but according to Plautus, in his play "Mostellaria," four nails were used. In addition, I did some stress analysis myself on the single-nail scenario and found that it would require a nail 5/8" square at the point that it entered the wood to support a 150 lb. man. This would mean that the nail would be about 3/4" square just under the head, based on the taper I have measured in examples of Roman nails in the British Museum in London and in photographs. There are actually a lot of those old Roman nails still around. Anyway, a nail that size would really wreck a person's foot and could cause them to expire sooner than it appears the Romans would have wanted.
  • I also doubt that a victim would be cognizant right up to the end. Crucifixion was evidently such a slow process that Seneca's mention of it wringing the victims' strength out drop by drop was likely accurate.
That being said, it is your fantasy and your story and you should write it as you wish, not necessarily to please others. The rest of us will appreciate you sharing it with us.

Jedakk
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You are a real Great Jedakk ;) but i agreed with you and i think the most of us will help him.
I remember me a few years ago, about your help in a story written by a Newbie (Andy Crossing Europe) the result was marvelous;)
 
Dio,
As I said before, the story is well-written. I have a hard time trying to place it historically because there are no references to any Roman emporers or other notable figures, and some of the names of Romans aren't typical Roman names from the Empire, the time when the Romans were in Britain. You did say that it was loosely based on Roman Britain! This is a complete story rather than just a narrative of a crucifixion such as we often see, and obviously an excellent effort that you devoted a lot of time and thought to. I enjoyed it and hope to see more.

Other comments:

- The whipping is kind of over the top and a little unbelievable because of its severity. I have to suspend some disbelief to think that she could walk or stand at all after all of that. It also goes on for a very large part of the story, which is ok if whipping is the central theme, but I was looking for more focus on her crucifixion. As severe as that whipping is, the spectators would get blood spattered on them from the swinging whips if they're as close as you describe, and that would be worth mentioning.
- The crown of thorns is a reach, since that particular feature was unique to Jesus' crucifixion rather than general use. I have read that it was used in one instance on Christians who were crucified, but only to imitate Christ's crucifixion.
- Katerina's father's attitude about the whole thing is a bit unlikely, since she is, after all, his daughter, and as governor he would have a lot of power to intervene in this whole thing. He might be a bit frustrated and unhappy with his daughter, but I have a hard time believing that he would request that in addition to being executed, she should be flogged first.
- You do a good job of describing Katerina's beauty and how overwhelmingly huge the soldiers and lictors are who participate in whipping and crucifying her.


Jedakk
 
Some technical points:
  • I doubt that the Romans were likely to have used only one nail through both feet. That is what is shown in religious art, but according to Plautus, in his play "Mostellaria," four nails were used. In addition, I did some stress analysis myself on the single-nail scenario and found that it would require a nail 5/8" square at the point that it entered the wood to support a 150 lb. man. This would mean that the nail would be about 3/4" square just under the head, based on the taper I have measured in examples of Roman nails in the British Museum in London and in photographs. There are actually a lot of those old Roman nails still around. Anyway, a nail that size would really wreck a person's foot and could cause them to expire sooner than it appears the Romans would have wanted.
  • I also doubt that a victim would be cognizant right up to the end. Crucifixion was evidently such a slow process that Seneca's mention of it wringing the victims' strength out drop by drop was likely accurate.

Hi, from my self experiences and the summaries of the shroud of turin it´s only another way of crucifixion, when you have a long nail throught both feets. Turin shows the same wounds caused by nails with the same diameter. Christ´s short time on cross is agree with that circumstance. In his case the scientists are thinking of 3 nails. My personally feeling on cross was, that you have more to dance, if you´ll get "stabil" (what´s that term in english?) in a meaning of physics. With 4 nails you´ll never "dance" in a way we´re looking for our pleasure on this forum. But i´m agree, then you´ll have to stay much longer at the cross. I´ll hope to present my pictures soon on this forum. And ...perhaps... in a better english....

petraherz
 
Many thanks for your replies. Always good to get feedback.

You're right of course that the details of exactly when it's set probably don't quite match-up. As it's fantasy I'm personally not too bothered by that, but I can see why it would grate on some people.

Similarly, with the severity of the whipping - of course you're probably right, but again I think with fantasy some leeway is permissible. I wanted to emphasise the savagery and the cruelty. Good point about the blood splashing the spectators, though. And yes, being honest, I think whipping is a bigger pull for me than crucifixion itself.

As for the father - well, I think he just feels shocked and betrayed. Furious and disgusted at his daughter and aware that the public want a cruel punishment. That's one of the reasons I didn't have him witnessing the execution, because when he saw the reality of the punishment then he would probably have intervened. Doing what he thought politically advisable then turning away seems to me consistent.

As for the nails - I thought long and hard about that. In the end I decided I just like the look of one nail through the feet better. I did some research into that and what I read suggested there were cases of both one and two nails being used. The detail about the width of the nail, though, seems compelling. Still, for fantasy I think it's OK within reason to go with the aesthetic.

Thanks again for your replies. Much appreciated.
 
I generally liked the story, thanks for sharing it. I tend to like the lead-up to the crucifixion so that you spent a great deal of time on everything prior to her crucifixion did not bother me at all.
 
King Diocletian said:
Hello. I'm a new member, really enjoying what I've found here. I've uploaded a story of mine, set in a loose Roman Britain. Hope you enjoy it.

Dio
Click to expand...
I just read a new story by you called A political Act . The story only had the first part .I hope you finish it .I read it on Gimp forum.
 
petraherz said:
Some technical points:
  • I doubt that the Romans were likely to have used only one nail through both feet. That is what is shown in religious art, but according to Plautus, in his play "Mostellaria," four nails were used. In addition, I did some stress analysis myself on the single-nail scenario and found that it would require a nail 5/8" square at the point that it entered the wood to support a 150 lb. man. This would mean that the nail would be about 3/4" square just under the head, based on the taper I have measured in examples of Roman nails in the British Museum in London and in photographs. There are actually a lot of those old Roman nails still around. Anyway, a nail that size would really wreck a person's foot and could cause them to expire sooner than it appears the Romans would have wanted.
  • I also doubt that a victim would be cognizant right up to the end. Crucifixion was evidently such a slow process that Seneca's mention of it wringing the victims' strength out drop by drop was likely accurate.

Hi, from my self experiences and the summaries of the shroud of turin it´s only another way of crucifixion, when you have a long nail throught both feets. Turin shows the same wounds caused by nails with the same diameter. Christ´s short time on cross is agree with that circumstance. In his case the scientists are thinking of 3 nails. My personally feeling on cross was, that you have more to dance, if you´ll get "stabil" (what´s that term in english?) in a meaning of physics. With 4 nails you´ll never "dance" in a way we´re looking for our pleasure on this forum. But i´m agree, then you´ll have to stay much longer at the cross. I´ll hope to present my pictures soon on this forum. And ...perhaps... in a better english....
The Shroud of Turin is most likely a medieval fake. There is (pretty conclusive, in my opinion) radiocarbon evidence reported years ago in the journal Science, there is documentary evidence, and there is a plausible scenario for how to fake the images (make a carving and drape the cloth over the contours). The chemical evidence for "blood" on the cloth is weak, and the evidence for pigments is strong. In addition, the anatomy displayed by the image is highly distorted. Finally, one doesn't hear much anymore about "Shroud science"--apparently the researchers who were supporting it haven't been able to come up with a convincing refutation of the evidence mentioned above. The Shroud is on the level of Fatama or Lourdes or Madugorje or Guadaloupe and "stigmata": no one has been able to come up with anything like a conclusive proof of supernatural intervention.
About the only real physical evidence we have of crucifixion is the "Yehonan" skeleton from Israel, and the nails there were driven through each ankle from the side, with the legs apparently spread.
Most authors I've read say the methods were probably diverse--there wasn't a standard "manual", which makes sense to me. It is unfortunate that there isn't more documentation or archeological evidence on this--even the gospels are silent, and only John mentions nails (and John claims the crucifixion happened on the eve of Passover, after the sixth hour--not at the third hour on the day after the traditional pascal sacrifice and meal, clearly trying to equate Jesus with the pascal lamb, the "Lamb of God": none of the details in the gospel accounts can really be trusted, and the "good thief" is only in Luke). There's just too much theology about who Jesus really was (which wasn't settled until orthodoxy was imposed by force in Constantine's time close to 300 years after the fact) encrusting the details in the gospel accounts to allow us to know how things actually happened. It seems to me the crucifixion was real--there is no reason to make something like that up because it really hurts your case that Jesus is "sent" by God, but there is every reason to try to explain the humiliation away with a lot of miraculous boilerplate.
petraherz
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King Diocletian said:
Yes - the version on GIMP has half of the second part posted by mistake. I hope to revise and complete that sometime.
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Thanks for your reply. I have read your story scapegoat and I like you writing. I would like too buy some of your books if I could find them. I would think that in a story like Scapegoat their should be at least one rape by the guards .
 
King Diocletian said:
Hello. I'm a new member, really enjoying what I've found here. I've uploaded a story of mine, set in a loose Roman Britain. Hope you enjoy it.

Dio
Click to expand...
I liked you story. I being a student of psychology really liked how you wrote the characters and the conflicts they had with themselves. The only two I think did not have conflict was Katerina and Gallus. One thing I think that could help with future stories is for ladies who are to be crucified is for them to not be completely naked until they are on the cross. This would carry the humiliation further in the story. You could have them wearing a single cloth tied around their waist or for it to be arranged as a piece of underwear. I hope to read more stories from you.
 
ShadowWolf said:
I liked you story. I being a student of psychology really liked how you wrote the characters and the conflicts they had with themselves. The only two I think did not have conflict was Katerina and Gallus. One thing I think that could help with future stories is for ladies who are to be crucified is for them to not be completely naked until they are on the cross. This would carry the humiliation further in the story. You could have them wearing a single cloth tied around their waist or for it to be arranged as a piece of underwear. I hope to read more stories from you.
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You can find many reading stuff here, also in the libary as .epub and .mobi or as .pdf in the archive.
http://www.cruxforums.com/xf/threads/crux-forums-e-book-library.4744/
http://www.cruxforums.com/xf/resources/
 
ShadowWolf said:
Thank you for the information. I was wondering what about my post on the Scapegoat you liked? The reason I ask is I am trying to get a sense of how to improve my writing.
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The only way to improve your writing is to do more of it. Most tips and advice, even from professional writers is bullshit (and many of them admit it). Post something you have written and see how it goes.
 
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