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Sadism and compassion

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Doragon

Doragon

Tribune
Mutual exclusive? Not in my experience.

I notice two kinds of stories here, two types of crucifixion and/or torture stories. Those that focus on the acts of violence and those that focus on the victim, who she is, what she is suffering and especially, how innocent or guilty she really is. To me the second type is more interesting. Why, I wondered recently? It has to do with meaning. I would not get excited from whipping a cow or kicking a dog. It is without meaning. It's not the inflicted pain I enjoy in a bdsm or snuff story. It's the suffering I enjoy. That's also why I do not focus on the person holding the whip, in my stories I focus on the victim and her suffering. And she can only suffer if the pain has meaning to her. Which means I also have to feel compassion in order for my sadism to kick in. The victims in my stories need to have names, some form of background and a kind of response that makes it possible to feel sorry for them. On the other hand the bad guy also needs to be more than a cardboard figure, so you can feel the disgust of the victim for him. I am still trying to understand this, but it has to do with contrast I think. No darkness or shadow without some form of light. No pain without sensitivity. Usually I want to cuddle the girl that suffered - I even have that with bdsm situations in real life. It's like I can't enjoy inflicting pain if I do not care for the victim.

Does this sound familiar? Any other views on this?
 
Doragon said:
Mutual exclusive? Not in my experience.

I notice two kinds of stories here, two types of crucifixion and/or torture stories. Those that focus on the acts of violence and those that focus on the victim, who she is, what she is suffering and especially, how innocent or guilty she really is. To me the second type is more interesting. Why, I wondered recently? It has to do with meaning. I would not get excited from whipping a cow or kicking a dog. It is without meaning. It's not the inflicted pain I enjoy in a bdsm or snuff story. It's the suffering I enjoy. That's also why I do not focus on the person holding the whip, in my stories I focus on the victim and her suffering. And she can only suffer if the pain has meaning to her. Which means I also have to feel compassion in order for my sadism to kick in. The victims in my stories need to have names, some form of background and a kind of response that makes it possible to feel sorry for them. On the other hand the bad guy also needs to be more than a cardboard figure, so you can feel the disgust of the victim for him. I am still trying to understand this, but it has to do with contrast I think. No darkness or shadow without some form of light. No pain without sensitivity. Usually I want to cuddle the girl that suffered - I even have that with bdsm situations in real life. It's like I can't enjoy inflicting pain if I do not care for the victim.

Does this sound familiar? Any other views on this?
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No, I get it!
 
Another bit of musing on this topic...
Someone once asked me, why do I hate women? But I do not hate women at all. In fact, I love the female body. Why then do I get this longing to hurt that lovely body, I often wonder? I do not get aroused by inflicting pain as such. Stabbing needles under her fingernails does nothing for me and I certainly would not get aroused by pulling a tooth. I do get aroused when flogging her sensitive inner thighs, her breasts and her vulva. I can also enjoy pushing needles into nipples and breasts and through labia. In fact, I get aroused by torturing those bodyparts that are attractive to me. I would not get aroused by torturing a man's body, because his body doesn't attract me. In short I must conclude that I enjoy hurting that which attracts me. As if I need to punish it for arousing me. And when I do punish it, in fantasy or in real life, I then feel the need to offer comfort afterwards, to carress that which has suffered from my arousal.
I am sure this is different for other people, but some will probably recognize this. Nobody is the same and there's no single form of sexuality. One of the reasons why I enjoy reading this forum, is the multitude of perversions I notice here. In enjoy reading people's fantasies, even when they don't arouse me. It helps me get to terms with my own kink as it were.
 
Doragon said:
Another bit of musing on this topic...
Someone once asked me, why do I hate women? But I do not hate women at all. In fact, I love the female body. Why then do I get this longing to hurt that lovely body, I often wonder? I do not get aroused by inflicting pain as such. Stabbing needles under her fingernails does nothing for me and I certainly would not get aroused by pulling a tooth. I do get aroused when flogging her sensitive inner thighs, her breasts and her vulva. I can also enjoy pushing needles into nipples and breasts and through labia. In fact, I get aroused by torturing those bodyparts that are attractive to me. I would not get aroused by torturing a man's body, because his body doesn't attract me. In short I must conclude that I enjoy hurting that which attracts me. As if I need to punish it for arousing me. And when I do punish it, in fantasy or in real life, I then feel the need to offer comfort afterwards, to carress that which has suffered from my arousal.
I am sure this is different for other people, but some will probably recognize this. Nobody is the same and there's no single form of sexuality. One of the reasons why I enjoy reading this forum, is the multitude of perversions I notice here. In enjoy reading people's fantasies, even when they don't arouse me. It helps me get to terms with my own kink as it were.
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In my opinion your words have neatly put down what many of us, though thoroughly aware of it, are not inclined to confess
 
Doragon said:
Mutual exclusive? Not in my experience.

I notice two kinds of stories here, two types of crucifixion and/or torture stories. Those that focus on the acts of violence and those that focus on the victim, who she is, what she is suffering and especially, how innocent or guilty she really is. To me the second type is more interesting. Why, I wondered recently? It has to do with meaning. I would not get excited from whipping a
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Doragon said:
Does this sound familiar? Any other views on this?
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I hope my stories do not fit one of your categories, however you might just highlight the executioner and the victims perspective, that would be the explanation of two type of stories and it indicates the third type. The stories of the people in the audition.
 
Doragon said:
Another bit of musing on this topic...
Someone once asked me, why do I hate women? But I do not hate women at all. In fact, I love the female body. Why then do I get this longing to hurt that lovely body, I often wonder? I do not get aroused by inflicting pain as such. Stabbing needles under her fingernails does nothing for me and I certainly would not get aroused by pulling a tooth. I do get aroused when flogging her sensitive inner thighs, her breasts and her vulva. I can also enjoy pushing needles into nipples and breasts and through labia. In fact, I get aroused by torturing those bodyparts that are attractive to me. I would not get aroused by torturing a man's body, because his body doesn't attract me. In short I must conclude that I enjoy hurting that which attracts me. As if I need to punish it for arousing me. And when I do punish it, in fantasy or in real life, I then feel the need to offer comfort afterwards, to carress that which has suffered from my arousal.
I am sure this is different for other people, but some will probably recognize this. Nobody is the same and there's no single form of sexuality. One of the reasons why I enjoy reading this forum, is the multitude of perversions I notice here. In enjoy reading people's fantasies, even when they don't arouse me. It helps me get to terms with my own kink as it were.
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I don't know whether you feel that my stories fall into category 2 or not, Doragon, but I completely identify with what you describe here. Thank you for putting it so beautifully!
 
dfg42 said:
I hope my stories do not fit one of your categories, however you might just highlight the executioner and the victims perspective, that would be the explanation of two type of stories and it indicates the third type. The stories of the people in the audition.
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That's another way to look at it, yes. I have no intention to invent an absolute classification system here. ;)
 
Doragon said:
I notice two kinds of stories here, two types of crucifixion and/or torture stories. Those that focus on the acts of violence and those that focus on the victim, who she is, what she is suffering and especially, how innocent or guilty she really is. To me the second type is more interesting.
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Doragon said:
Mutual exclusive? Not in my experience.
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That is to say, you can have focus on just one of those things, but you can also have focus on both. (Or neither, even - though such a story might be a bit odd.)


As for my own opinion... well, I enjoy both the acts and the connected feelings and emotions, which I consider to be bound together quite tightly. The victim, the one who causes their suffering, any audience... all are twined together by their deeds and feelings.

As for the other thing... I do have some preferences, for instance female victims over male or young over old. But it's not nearly as related to sexuality as yours, I think. Sometimes it's almost entirely unrelated. The idea of "punishing for arousing" is totally strange to me, although I would dub it a "Frollo Complex."
 
KageKamen said:
The idea of "punishing for arousing" is totally strange to me, although I would dub it a "Frollo Complex."
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Maybe I am a bit like those inquisitors you read about in stories, that torture beautiful women for being sexy and beautiful. I do find those scenes very amusing.

I agree it does not have to be sexual. I can really enjoy telling a woman what to wear or make her assume certain postures, just for the fun of being in control. that doesn't excite me sexually though.
 
Doragon said:
Maybe I am a bit like those inquisitors you read about in stories, that torture beautiful women for being sexy and beautiful. I do find those scenes very amusing.

I agree it does not have to be sexual. I can really enjoy telling a woman what to wear or make her assume certain postures, just for the fun of being in control. that doesn't excite me sexually though.
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Maybe. I might prefer to read about a different sort of inquisitor, though.

And for me, it is the very punishment, suffering and misery which excites me.

(OK, that sounds a bit worse when I actually see it typed up...)
 
KageKamen said:
Perhaps. Or professional and uninvested. Perhaps even sympathetic, although that would take some writing...
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I like the bad guys in my stories to have different setups. Sometimes they are detached, clinical. Others are indeed sympathetic. Caring even. But I also like to have some villains be really nasty and cruel, in such a way you can't help but hate them as a reader.

KageKamen said:
(Also, it helps that being sexy and beautiful is not a requirement for victims for me.)
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That's where we're different, because if I don't find the victim arousing, the story often also isn't appealing to me.
 
Doragon said:
I like the bad guys in my stories to have different setups. Sometimes they are detached, clinical. Others are indeed sympathetic. Caring even. But I also like to have some villains be really nasty and cruel, in such a way you can't help but hate them as a reader.


That's where we're different, because if I don't find the victim arousing, the story often also isn't appealing to me.
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Yes, the second part is different, since it's the things happening to the victim which excite me (although a victim I can feel for does help, an being pretty can help with that). But the first part is similar (although I prefer to use truly cruel villains sparingly.)
 
From the point of view of the female masochist/sub, it's empathising (in the strict sense of that much misused word) with the victim, imagining myself as fully as I can into her tortured body, what she's feeling and experiencing, how she's dealing with it - or trying to and failing, in a sense 'becoming' the victim, without any sense of compassion, feeling sorry for her - that's different from sympathising - in my experience, some true sadists can sympathise with their victims, they may even need to - as you describe very well in your opening post, Doragon.

Doragon said:
I like the bad guys in my stories to have different setups. Sometimes they are detached, clinical. Others are indeed sympathetic. Caring even. But I also like to have some villains be really nasty and cruel, in such a way you can't help but hate them as a reader.


That's where we're different, because if I don't find the victim arousing, the story often also isn't appealing to me.
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I think a mixture of cruelty and tenderness can be most powerful, again, from the point of view of the victim, I'm experiencing the attentions of a lover and the barbarity of the torturer simultaneously or quickly alternating - very unsettling, very arousing!
 
Doragon said:
Mutual exclusive? Not in my experience.

I notice two kinds of stories here, two types of crucifixion and/or torture stories. Those that focus on the acts of violence and those that focus on the victim, who she is, what she is suffering and especially, how innocent or guilty she really is. To me the second type is more interesting. Why, I wondered recently? It has to do with meaning. I would not get excited from whipping a cow or kicking a dog. It is without meaning. It's not the inflicted pain I enjoy in a bdsm or snuff story. It's the suffering I enjoy. That's also why I do not focus on the person holding the whip, in my stories I focus on the victim and her suffering. And she can only suffer if the pain has meaning to her. Which means I also have to feel compassion in order for my sadism to kick in. The victims in my stories need to have names, some form of background and a kind of response that makes it possible to feel sorry for them. On the other hand the bad guy also needs to be more than a cardboard figure, so you can feel the disgust of the victim for him. I am still trying to understand this, but it has to do with contrast I think. No darkness or shadow without some form of light. No pain without sensitivity. Usually I want to cuddle the girl that suffered - I even have that with bdsm situations in real life. It's like I can't enjoy inflicting pain if I do not care for the victim.

Does this sound familiar? Any other views on this?
Click to expand...
Interesting perspective. It's a meme at this point to view porn, especially Hentai, for "the plot."
That said I have seen productions, even photo shoots that have text accompanying it, with a production value to rival Hollywood films.
The written story seems to be more applicable to setting up a background for the characters, plot, settings and situations. Probably why they are so popular on this forum.
More often than not when a writer or creator speaks more on why the acts happening to the characters and which characters perspective is being talked about most they are projecting their own desires and thought processes.

When I was involved with a sex group back in college we practiced acting out all kinds of fantasies and fetishes. An idea that one of the heads of the group proposed was to keep a written account of what each participant was feeling and experiencing throughout our various sessions. i remember that, for me anyway, I spoke a great deal more on when I was in the dominant position. Usually,

in my experience, the "victim" is doing this to fulfill sexual desires, which can be interesting to hear about, but honestly it can only be taken so far. Their are tons and tons of stories that detail how the victim starts out despising every second of the ordeal and by the end they are essentially brain dead by how satisfying the torture is.
 
Althanie J said:
in my experience, the "victim" is doing this to fulfill sexual desires, which can be interesting to hear about, but honestly it can only be taken so far. Their are tons and tons of stories that detail how the victim starts out despising every second of the ordeal and by the end they are essentially brain dead by how satisfying the torture is.
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Now this is one style I can't be doing with at all - possibly because I lack a real sub side, or possibly because I'm very averse to pain and discomfort myself. For me, pain is pain and pleasure is pleasure - there's little room for masochist victims. But a lot of people really get off on the victim getting off.
 
Yes interesting. It can be different in many ways and while I prefer stories with pictures, it is not a deal breaker!
Heck, look at what I post. I also have a preference for submissive women, the prettier the better! and well whipped and/or caned, even better.
Came up through the 'english' school system so that is why I like to see a good canning!
 
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