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Story writing: point of view
- Thread starter Doragon
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Darkprincess69
High Priestess of Slaanesh
I think most writers use third person because it gives them a greater range of options as to how to tell the story. Once you switch to first person, you can't really go outside of the immediate scene, which can restrict your ability to flesh out the more peripheral aspects of the story. Having said that, I think that a first-person story from the point of view of the executioner could be interesting - how does he or she view their work? Do they enjoy torturing and/or killing their victims, or do they agonise about it afterwards?
First person viewpoints can be extremely compelling, but comes with the big limitation of restricting yourself quite a bit as you have to be really careful not to write outside of the current scene.
OK, I know Lovecraft actually did this quite a bit and that's fine, but it's not generally considered to be a good way to write. In fact Lovecraft was technically a pretty bad writer, but he gets away with it because of the content of his stories and the world-building that formed around his groundbreaking ideas.
And before any Lovecraft fans dump on me for saying this, I'm a huge fan of his work and have been ever since I first discovered his writing as a teenager, but you still can't get away from the fact that his writing style left a lot to be desired in terms of literary proficiency - excessive use of purple prose (though personally I like this aspect of his work), overuse of certain words, the fact that most of his characters are indistinguishable and so on), but that said, if we're going to judge him (or any other author for that matter), we should do so based on the content of the works rather than the style of writing.
Anyway, I digress (as I often do) - the bottom line is that the focus of a story and the choice of first or third person perspective and the writing style is actually much less important than the actual content and as long as the story is interesting, I don't think too many people will worry unduly about literary technicalities
First person viewpoints can be extremely compelling, but comes with the big limitation of restricting yourself quite a bit as you have to be really careful not to write outside of the current scene.
OK, I know Lovecraft actually did this quite a bit and that's fine, but it's not generally considered to be a good way to write. In fact Lovecraft was technically a pretty bad writer, but he gets away with it because of the content of his stories and the world-building that formed around his groundbreaking ideas.
And before any Lovecraft fans dump on me for saying this, I'm a huge fan of his work and have been ever since I first discovered his writing as a teenager, but you still can't get away from the fact that his writing style left a lot to be desired in terms of literary proficiency - excessive use of purple prose (though personally I like this aspect of his work), overuse of certain words, the fact that most of his characters are indistinguishable and so on), but that said, if we're going to judge him (or any other author for that matter), we should do so based on the content of the works rather than the style of writing.
Anyway, I digress (as I often do) - the bottom line is that the focus of a story and the choice of first or third person perspective and the writing style is actually much less important than the actual content and as long as the story is interesting, I don't think too many people will worry unduly about literary technicalities
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windar
Teller of Tales
Writing with the very talented @Barbaria1 allows us to cover multiple POVs. We have many characters who are neither victim nor torturer and even those who are one of those sometimes can become the other...
Praefectus Praetorio
R.I.P. Brother of the Quill
Agreed. I generally use the third person for the aforementioned reason of the freedom to use different views and be omniscient.
As also said, first-person can be much more emotional and focused. This is especially noticeable in torture and sex.
It is possible to use the first person, but avoid many of its limitations by using multiple persons as narrator. Collaborative writers like @Barbaria1 and @whats-his-name can achieve this rather easily. For a single writer, this requires a lot of skill, work, and planning. But when done well, it is riveting! (wish I was good enough to do it!)
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montycrusto
Guest
As a reader I don’t mind either way. When writing, I like the idea of stories-within-stories and multiple time frames, so if I tell a story about a storyteller I can switch from one narrative to another, from first person to third, and get (hopefully) the best of both worlds.
I certainly tried to achieve this, with “ What Happened in Aquileia”, where the two narratives (one first-person, one third-person) intertwine and come together at the end. Sort of. Or rather, you think they’re the same story told from two angles, but they’re not. And yet they kind of are.
I certainly tried to achieve this, with “ What Happened in Aquileia”, where the two narratives (one first-person, one third-person) intertwine and come together at the end. Sort of. Or rather, you think they’re the same story told from two angles, but they’re not. And yet they kind of are.
What Happened In Aquileia - Crux Story By Montycrusto
What Happened in Aquileia – part 1 His eye travelled slowly along the length of the woman's arm, from her wrist, where the blunt head of the iron spike protruded obscenely from her flesh, along the meandering line of a dried blood-trail to her elbow, where he observed a tiny fold of skin, a...
www.cruxforums.com
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montycrusto
Guest
Hahaha
what’s-his-name is one of my favourite thingumabobs.
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windar
Teller of Tales
Age-related memory loss, PrPr? They say that jellyfish stuff can help, but I always wonder what jellyfish remember...
D
Deleted member jedakk
Guest
I wrote "The Serpent's Eye" as a series of first-person narratives from the points of view of different characters. That enabled me to tell the story from the POV of victim, executioner, domina (who was also an onlooker) and a friend, Salonina the cook. The really difficult parts were the decision as to which narrator would best be able to tell a particular part of the story and the handoff from one narrator to another. Sometimes part of the story was told twice from different viewpoints but most of the time not. I got the inspiration to do it that way from Barbara Kingsolver's "The Poisonwood Bible." I think all of my other stories were told from a third person point of view.
Hmm... I personally can enjoy all sorts of perspectives.
Of course, omitting a certain perspective can also have it's uses. A pure victim focus can be because the inflictors of suffering are enigmatic, or just irrelevant. Omitting the victim's thoughts is almost always so we have to divine them through their reactions. And of course, there are other perspectives, especially for a public execution, whose thoughts and sympathies can vary wildly.
Of course, omitting a certain perspective can also have it's uses. A pure victim focus can be because the inflictors of suffering are enigmatic, or just irrelevant. Omitting the victim's thoughts is almost always so we have to divine them through their reactions. And of course, there are other perspectives, especially for a public execution, whose thoughts and sympathies can vary wildly.
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
I like writing 'just for the fun' (so, I am stuck with lots of unfinished stories), and always, the (future) condemned is the lead character. In case the lead character is a tormentor or an executioner, this is only the prelude to end up in the opposite role of condemned. Both first and third person viewpoints have their merits, although the first person is a bit more a challenge, as, on one hand, it is easier to get into the head of the character, but on the other hand, one has to take care of the limitations already mentioned above.
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montycrusto
Guest
Ok I’m reading a book right now (The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemisin) which is mostly written in second-person historic-present.. and it’s driving me nuts. “You do this.. and then you go there.. and you think this..”. I’m like, stop f*cking telling me what I’m thinking!!! AAARRRGH. Full disclosure, I hate historic-present anyway.. but coupled with this 2nd-person stuff, it’s horrific.
Anyone else encountered this hideous abomination? I’ll keep reading because the world-building is interesting and I think there’s a big identity-related twist coming, which might (possibly) justify the 2nd person narrative, but probably won’t.
Full disclosure, I hate historic-present anyway.. but coupled with this 2nd-person stuff, it’s horrific.Anyone else encountered this hideous abomination? I’ll keep reading because the world-building is interesting and I think there’s a big identity-related twist coming, which might (possibly) justify the 2nd person narrative, but probably won’t.
Marcius
Tribune
It's pretty rare. I think it works pretty well in Bright Lights, Big City by Jay McInerney, but in general it seems an unnecessary literary device.Ok I’m reading a book right now (The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemisin) which is mostly written in second-person historic-present.. and it’s driving me nuts. “You do this.. and then you go there.. and you think this..”. I’m like, stop f*cking telling me what I’m thinking!!! AAARRRGH.
Anyone else encountered this hideous abomination? I’ll keep reading because the world-building is interesting and I think there’s a big identity-related twist coming, which might (possibly) justify the 2nd person narrative, but probably won’t.
Pretty well all my stories here are in the 1st person. It's not a conscious decision, I simply imagine myself into a character and her/my situation, feelings, responses ... exploring and working through my own fantasies, and offering them for others to share. It's limited, I admit, maybe I'm egoistical, certainly introverted - I know I've got some strengths in putting thoughts and feelings into words, and I think in using words to imagine scenes and settings, but I don't have so much ability in dreaming up plots or creating varied characters.
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
That's logic, isn't? The writing is an expression of one's own, unique, fantasies and desires.
windar
Teller of Tales
Well, she got a MacArthur genius award. You (meaning me, but I suspect that includes others here as well) didn't.Ok I’m reading a book right now (The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemisin) which is mostly written in second-person historic-present.. and it’s driving me nuts. “You do this.. and then you go there.. and you think this..”. I’m like, stop f*cking telling me what I’m thinking!!! AAARRRGH.
Anyone else encountered this hideous abomination? I’ll keep reading because the world-building is interesting and I think there’s a big identity-related twist coming, which might (possibly) justify the 2nd person narrative, but probably won’t.
Yes, I enjoyed that one at the time, but I wonder how it would read now...
I don't know about ability as far as plots and varied characters, but I try...I think that could be done in first person, though third person gives more latitude, I think...
dfg42
Consul
In young years, I read a lot of Karl May and he often used the "Icherzähler" method, so the author is part of the story. Most people write in the third person so he is not part of the story. I use both, but very like to be one of the figures because it enables to point out the thinking of the figure. So when telling the motivations I would use that form.
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montycrusto
Guest
I keep expecting something like “there is a knock at the door. Do you (1) answer it? (Go to page 134), or (2) hide (go to page 179)”
You write a novel in the second person singular. You win a literary award. You think: “neat-o.” Your readers think “wtf is going on .. am I supposed to “be” the main character? Why is this author telling me what I’m doing and thinking?”
dfg42
Consul
Not from he, dfg42 describes himself in the third person singular to his friends. Strangers and enemies have to describe the dfg42 in the third person plurals, else they are most probably crucified by them.I keep expecting something like “there is a knock at the door. Do you (1) answer it? (Go to page 134), or (2) hide (go to page 179)”
You write a novel in the second person singular. You win a literary award. You think: “neat-o.” Your readers think “wtf is going on .. am I supposed to “be” the main character? Why is this author telling me what I’m doing and thinking?”
Most of my early stories posted here on CF were written in first person because, like Eul, I imagined myself into the role. I still imagine myself into a role, but other writers here on CF have managed to convince me that I could do that AND write a richer more nuanced story, with external narration and deeper treatments of other characters’s actions and motives, if I wrote in third person. I was reluctant at first, but eventually gave it a try, and I must say that it’s worked well for me.