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What effect does Crucifixion have on toes and fingers?

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Zelda

Executioner
If it were me being crucified, what could I expect? Would I still be able to slowly move my fingers and toes or would the trauma from the nails in my wrists and feet cause enough damage that movement of those smaller digits would be cut off eventually and even go numb well into the execution? It passes through bone, muscles, and severs nerves so I wondered about that.

My fantasy is that while they would be damaged and become slower, I could still move them or have others around me manipulate them as they see fit, but the reality may be different.
 
Is that instant or does it build up the longer the victim is on their cross?
 
Without going into the full neurology of the event, if the nerve is completely severed, then whatever that nerve controls is lost the use of immediately, be that the limb or part of that limb such as finger(s) or toe(s)

Nails from crucifixion would likely damage plantar and distal nerves, but not likely to paralyse the feet or hand, which might sound like a positive, but the neuropathic pain from nails and crucified position would increasingly be agony.
 
Thank you, that is what I was looking for. I love everything that I am learning at this site through people here and also from people outside the site.
 
Thank you, that is what I was looking for. I love everything that I am learning at this site through people here and also from people outside the site.
Remember, you have been crucified for a reason. It does not matter if you can wiggle your fingers or not, with your wrists nailed to the cross even that itch on your breast or the bead of sweat running down your bare flesh is out of reach. You have been crucified for your execution. No matter how long it takes, you are also the crowd's entertainment...
crux 974 A.jpg
 
If it were me being crucified, what could I expect? Would I still be able to slowly move my fingers and toes or would the trauma from the nails in my wrists and feet cause enough damage that movement of those smaller digits would be cut off eventually and even go numb well into the execution? It passes through bone, muscles, and severs nerves so I wondered about that.
My fantasy is that while they would be damaged and become slower, I could still move them or have others around me manipulate them as they see fit, but the reality may be different.
Well ... when we get crucified it always depends a lot on what our crucifiers actually want, and what tools and methods they choose for the job!

So it matters where they put the nail, what kind of nail they choose, and how they drive it through...

let's look at the foot.
I've shown one place where many crucifiers like to place a nail.
They can pound it through without having to crush bones or push them grotesquely away from their normal position. But if you look at the schematic with nerves and blood vessels in it, it's not 'just flesh' there.
Blood vessels don't work like plastic pipes though ...they can roll around quite a bit, shift aside.
So if the crucifier wants us to keep as much function as possible ...
foot1.jpg
... they might pick a round cross-section nail, that is not needle-sharp (so that it doesn't puncture), and they would tap it through slowly, so that the relatively blunt tip presses tissue aside, more than it cuts through. If he wanted to, an experienced cruxer could probably avoid severing much in the way of nerves and vessels.

If instead he picked a nail with square cross-section, perhaps with ragged edges, a sharp tip, and pounded it through with one enormous blow ... there would likely be much much more immediate tissue damage.
One would not rapidly bleed out from this nor would sensitivity or motion be lost in all the toes.
He could also place the nail higher up, perhaps between cuboid and the cuneiform beside it (between 2 & 1)

That's what might happen during the nailing...
as the crucifixion continues of course there's more.

Having to rest significant parts of our bodyweight on a thin piece of metal will cause additional damage.
This will compress and crush tissue and begin to press bones apart.
There's a membrane on the outside of the bone called the periosteum which is extremely sensitive to pain - while the bone on the inside has no pain reception at all.
So things grinding against the outer surface of the bone such as a jagged nail is going to be ridiculously painful.
Then there will be swelling which while it can reduce bleeding will cause any movement to be more painful.
All in all it'll just be very very painful to move so much as a toe.
And then of course, there can be issues with cramping, and unrelieved pressure.
(Forced standing in one position is considered a torture in and of itself if done for considerable periods of time!)
As hours drag into days inflammation/infection become a concern.

There's a second popular way of nailing the foot, through the heelbone
foot2.jpg
here it is pretty easy to avoid major nerves and blood vessels.
In fact this diagram is for a medical procedure that places the nail at the red dot (in the medical context they call it a 'pin')

As it is, once it's in, it's actually practically painless (I can attest) -- the weight put on it for medical purpose is only a few kg though and everything is done with care.
Of course having to put half your bodyweight on a nail through the heelbone is also quite something else!
But there isn't any direct damage at all, to sensitivity or motion of the toes.

So all in all, if the crucifier wants us to be able to feel things in our toes, and maybe wriggle and curl them a bit ... he can do that!

But as Tree points out ... even if the nail is very carefully driven through, to avoid nerve and blood vessel damage ...
... still we are crucified, helplessly and hopelessly fixed to the hurt-beam.
 
So, it seems that fingers and toes could still move then. I guess tension might make them move when pulling up and down because a hanging person would have to clench their strength when pushing themselves up? Like scrunching up your fingers and toes and then slowly relaxing them as they lower themselves back down? Thank you for the information so far.
 
So, it seems that fingers and toes could still move then. I guess tension might make them move when pulling up and down because a hanging person would have to clench their strength when pushing themselves up? Like scrunching up your fingers and toes and then slowly relaxing them as they lower themselves back down? Thank you for the information so far.
fingers is a bit of a different topic ... the wrist is so much more delicate and compact.

just consider that some people will get excruciating pain from carpal tunnel syndrome, which is caused by 'pressure on the median nerve'.
Carpal-Tunnel-Graphic_Advanced-Ortho-and-Spine-1536x920.png
now imagine a nail going through there.
Even if the nail itself does not injure or sever the median nerve as it forces its way through it demands room, pressing everything else aside, and exerting massive pressure on the nerve.
The diagram shows the areas affected and that is where you could expect numbness & immobility.

If you use ropes to carry the actual weight and put 'symbolic' nails through the palms everything is quite controllable again but purists will say that doesn't count as a 'proper' crucifixion...
 
fingers is a bit of a different topic ... the wrist is so much more delicate and compact.

just consider that some people will get excruciating pain from carpal tunnel syndrome, which is caused by 'pressure on the median nerve'.
View attachment 1594085
now imagine a nail going through there.
Even if the nail itself does not injure or sever the median nerve as it forces its way through it demands room, pressing everything else aside, and exerting massive pressure on the nerve.
The diagram shows the areas affected and that is where you could expect numbness & immobility.

If you use ropes to carry the actual weight and put 'symbolic' nails through the palms everything is quite controllable again but purists will say that doesn't count as a 'proper' crucifixion...
So now, Gentle Reader, you understand why it is that we mods get a bit uppity if someone suggests real crucifixion with nails! ;)
 
Remember, you have been crucified for a reason. It does not matter if you can wiggle your fingers or not, with your wrists nailed to the cross even that itch on your breast or the bead of sweat running down your bare flesh is out of reach. You have been crucified for your execution. No matter how long it takes, you are also the crowd's entertainment...
View attachment 1593989
So if I was being crucified, if I say to the executioners, "Excuse me, but my nose is itching, and just around my left eye. Could you please scratch me? I would do it myself but my arms are nailed outstretched now..." Do you mean to suggest that they WON'T scratch it for me? I just think that's a little harsh. Not very nice. I don't mind being whipped, the nails in my wrists and feet, and raised up so my weight is on my arms but to not scratch an itch, and not wipe a trickle of sweat running down me, that's going a bit far!! You would almost be calling this torture then wouldn't you?
 
So, one of the things you'll notice that artists do? We don't show hands or feet that have had their nerves severed very often. We show them expressing pain! Clenched, clawed, scrunched, curled, all of these pulling in or pulling together actions, little microcosms of the fetal positions we would like to take if we could when dealt out this much pain, but never as they would be, limp, unable to move. In some ways it means that the nails are actually less damaging; the median nerve was simply pushed aside. In others we know that it works better visually to show the damage of the nails through the expression in the fingers.

One of the compromises that was popular when I first started was to have the first and second digits and the thumb extended to show the damage to the median nerve. If I recall Yuessby/Krixx did that. I tried my hands at that, but ultimately went with the more expressive choice when I felt like I could "get away with" the less realistic look. Everyone makes that choice somewhere along the way!
 

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Here's something that I just found, and haven't seen before: "Crucifixion and median neuropathy" by Jacqueline M. Regan, Kiarash Shahlaie, and Joseph C. Watson. It's a bit more anatomy than I can really understand, but they seem to point out that damage to the median nerve at the level of the wrist wouldn't affect the flexion of the fingers, which is controlled by muscles in the forearm, so upstream of the nail. However, the hyperextension of the elbow leads to tension on the median nerve at the level of the elbow and proximal forearm, and that would affect those flexor muscles—

I think. I'm trying to puzzle out what the article says would be the consequences of damage to the nerve at the wrist. If someone who's better versed in anatomy would care to explain, we'd all be grateful.

 
Thank you. I may not understand a lot of it, but I will take a look.
 
I am most interested in this part as of now:
" He found no evidence of respiratory or cardiac compromise, lending support to the “shock theory.”

So, this means death was caused by going into shock? is that mentally or physically or even both?

I always imagined myself suffocating to death and then passing out, but it seems that may not be true? It is a shame because a heaving body is a sexy body. gasping for deep breaths that never come correctly.

I will keep reading.
 
IIRC the research on crucifixion by the late forensic pathologist Dr. Frederick Zugibe (d. 2013) concludes that crucifixion victims died from hypovolemic shock rather than the victims being too exhausted to lift themselves up to breathe in enough air.

His research put live volunteers including his son on a cross in his house but like with other experiments no one was actually nailed so it could not be said with certainty if the shock theory is factual as well as theoretical.
 
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