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Is It Right To Enjoy Our Fantasies?

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Is it right to enjoy our fantasies?

Are they purely fantasy, or are we deriving pleasure from the genuine pain and suffering of others?
If not then I would ask, do we harm anyone with our fantasies? Do they negatively affect the way we relate to others?

Or rather, do they bring us pleasure and make us better people through allowing us to indulge a part of ourselves which would otherwise be bottled up?
 
Are they purely fantasy, or are we deriving pleasure from the genuine pain and suffering of others?
If not then I would ask, do we harm anyone with our fantasies? Do they negatively affect the way we relate to others?

Or rather, do they bring us pleasure and make us better people through allowing us to indulge a part of ourselves which would otherwise be bottled up?

For me, it is not the way of deriving pleasure from the suffering of others. Seeing pics or reading stories of crucifixion, for instance, makes the 'wiring' in my head create a kind of 'victim identification'. I only can enjoy it when I imagine being the condemned of the picture.

i admit,, I occasionally have fantasies where I do vicious things to imaginary others, as a war criminal for instance. But at the end, of the fantasy I get executed for it myself. The execution is a mandatory part of the story, for not to say, all what comes before in the story is intended to lead to the execution.

And bottling up? These fantasies are a (concealed) part of my nature. They are part of my life. It would be impossible to bottle them up. You cannot bottle up an ocean.:)
 
Is it right to enjoy our fantasies?

Are they purely fantasy, or are we deriving pleasure from the genuine pain and suffering of others?
If not then I would ask, do we harm anyone with our fantasies? Do they negatively affect the way we relate to others?

Or rather, do they bring us pleasure and make us better people through allowing us to indulge a part of ourselves which would otherwise be bottled up?
I don't know about becoming a better person. I know, for myself, that I would not 'get off' by seeing or participating in the genuine torture and death of another person. However, in a fantasy I can crucify someone (preferably someone or a character I like) and find that nicely erotic.

Perhaps the question of health is somewhere in the ability to differentiate between real and fantasy. As to whether it's "right" to enjoy our fantasies, that gets us into morality, which is more personal and up to the individual.
 
I don't know about becoming a better person. I know, for myself, that I would not 'get off' by seeing or participating in the genuine torture and death of another person. However, in a fantasy I can crucify someone (preferably someone or a character I like) and find that nicely erotic.

Perhaps the question of health is somewhere in the ability to differentiate between real and fantasy. As to whether it's "right" to enjoy our fantasies, that gets us into morality, which is more personal and up to the individual.
Here! Here!
In RL I'm opposed to the use of torture and the death penalty. I would never support someone doing in RL the things I fantasize about.

The "healthy" person is the one who can distinguish between their fantasies and reality. The unhealthy person blurs the two and tries to make their fantasies a reality.
 
This has been a very interesting and thought-provoking discussion thread.
I can certainly say that revealing, sharing and indulging my fantasies here
has helped me be a lot less screwed-up, anxious and depressed.
I suppose as a masochist/sub any spillover into 'real life' would be rather different
from what a sadist might do - it's true that I am happy making myself useful
in a team, under a someone else as leader, I'm not really happy in a 'leadership' role,
I don't have the aggression or competitive instinct that seems to be expected;
I think I'm seen as a peacemaker and a capable handler of difficult people
and situations (which does require some assertiveness, but also patience
and ability to see others' points of view, and not imposing my own).
So the 'natural slavegirl' here may not be so different to the 'me' out there!

But my fantasies - as anyone who's read much of my stories and poems will have found -
can be pretty 'dark', and extreme in the kinds of torture and abuse I bring into them
(though again, while I've been on the Forums, I've learnt rather more light-hearted ways
of fantasising, thanks to lots of great writers of 'light' fantasy here,
which is at least as demanding to dream up as my heavyweight stuff)

One issue that hasn't really come up in this discussion so far that does trouble me a bit,
is whether the kinds of images and stories we enjoy here could be influencing/ encouraging
anybody to actually behave in the ways they portray?
That, of course, is the fear behind the chronic moral panic about 'pornography' of our kind.

When I first came onto the Forums, I admit I was pretty scared about what kind of weirdos
I might meet, and I've been amazed just what a lot of really lovely, kind, delightful people
I've found. If any of the 'active' members here really are wicked monsters, they're certainly
concealing that side of themselves very skillfully!

But of course there are thousands of registered users who never post at all,
not to mention visitors who can see a good bit of what's on the site without signing up.
It would be a miracle if some of them aren't nasty types.
The psychological evidence on the effect of violent stuff on potential sex-criminals
seems to be, so far as I've gathered, pretty inconclusive - yes, sex-offenders these days
generally have masses of violent stuff downloaded on their computers, but is it
a cause or a symptom? In any case, censoring is futile, if they want it, they'll find it.
And - thinking of my own stories - pretty well all the terrible tortures and atrocities
I bring into them are based (it's grim to say) on things that have been done,
and, appallingly, still are done, in the real world. The most horrendous
'pornography' isn't fantasy, its news. Facing up to the 'dark side' in ourselves
may, I hope, make us less, not more, likely to indulge it in real life.
 
One issue that hasn't really come up in this discussion so far that does trouble me a bit,
is whether the kinds of images and stories we enjoy here could be influencing/ encouraging
anybody to actually behave in the ways they portray?
That, of course, is the fear behind the chronic moral panic about 'pornography' of our kind.

The early research on the subject did suggest that a small minority might be influenced towards more violent behaviours. The problem was that follow up research became impossible as a result due to the moral dilemma that if the first set of results had not been a statistical blip then exposing subjects to something that might cause one or more of them to go out and commit a crime is a big ethical no no.

That said even without systematic research the explosion of material on the internet has surprisingly* not resulted in an epidemic of rape murders.

The number of sexual offences catalogued has gone up but this is more the result of the fact that police forces around the world have started actually recording and investigating them. Additionally most sexual offences tend to occur without violence as the perpetrator tends to rely on such things as their victim's intoxication or their own social influence to enable the abuse.

*sarcasm, the original research dealt with very small numbers
 
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One thing I do love about B.D.S.M. and now for me Crucifixion is we do get the chance to live out our fantasies. Okay, we do have our limits and safe words or whatever, so it's far from the real barbaric thing.

It must be such a sensuous experience being stripped naked preferably in public view then flogged, and crucified in the hands of the safe and sane. For me, I do love viewing the pictures on the site or films that portray the subject, but I feel a need to endure some of the pain my eyes are taking in, if that makes sense.

It would be so nice to find a group and do more of this stuff. I’ve just watched the trailer link I put up to Dead But Dreaming, so my fantasy of being escorted out behind my super hero, Amy Heskeith and flogged alongside her is so strong.

Amy Heskeith Escorted 01.png Amy Heskeith Escorted 02.png Pippa Under Escort~GSW_DSC_0462.jpg Double Flogging Amy & Pippa.jpg
 
Fascinating thread with some very interesting contributions. I'm wary of wading too deep into this question, only because I find that this sort of introspection (for me) tends to disrupt and dissolve the fantasy element, which is why I'm here. But I did want to share a couple of thoughts.

First, I'd be mortified if anyone thought me capable in real life of the atrocities I regularly describe in my stories - that should go without saying, I suppose. But what if a real crime were committed by someone and it were shown to be inspired by/based on something I wrote? - I don't know how I'd deal with that.

Secondly, about point of view, or narrative position. When Eulalia started a thread called "Victim's Eye View" it started me thinking: with pictures, it's quite rare to get the victim's eye view; pictures nearly always show the act of torture from the master's/ torturer's/ dom's perspective, or at the very least, from the point of view of a spectator, which in these circumstances amounts to the same thing. However, with stories, the position is precisely the other way round - the victim's perspective is much more common, and I'd say it's relatively rare to read stories where the torturer is the narrator.

I've contributed a few stories here now; two were written largely from the female victim's perspective (Prisoner 12 and Carnival Queen) and three from a male perspective; in one case (A Thief in the Macellum) crucifixion was described as a past event, but none of the characters participated directly. In the other two, (The God of Filth and What Happened in Aquileia) the narrators were involved, but unwillingly. Their accounts are tinged with regret. This is hypocritical of course, because I really want to indulge the fantasy of crucifying a woman, whilst pretending that I'm really against it. So I can have my cake (sizzling hot torture fantasy) and eat it too (avoid the moral contortions of speaking as a torturer). Having decided to make the effort to narrate from the male viewpoint, this was the compromise I found, because I couldn't quite stomach telling "the torturer's tale" - I just couldn't get inside the mind of someone like that (though now I think I must give it a try, as long as it's a fantasy, and understood as such). So, it's an awkward compromise, and it's really much simpler to tell such a tale from the victim's viewpoint - all the luscious BDSM thrills and no moral contortion. Though when I do that, I am called cruel for putting my heroines through such ordeals - I don't mind, I take that as a compliment ;) - but that wouldn't happen to a female writer I guess.

What would it be like, I wonder, to narrate a tale directly from the torturer's point of view? And is it a good idea? Would anyone care to direct me to some examples from CF's luscious, lubricious and lascivious library??

Well, that turned out a lot longer than I expected - sorry if I bored anyone:oops:
 
What would it be like, I wonder, to narrate a tale directly from the torturer's point of view? And is it a good idea? Would anyone care to direct me to some examples from CF's luscious, lubricious and lascivious library??

Pp does a very convincing, thoughtful and deeply thorough job of this. Try some of his work.
 
This has been a very interesting and thought-provoking discussion thread.

One issue that hasn't really come up in this discussion so far that does trouble me a bit,
is whether the kinds of images and stories we enjoy here could be influencing/ encouraging
anybody to actually behave in the ways they portray?
That, of course, is the fear behind the chronic moral panic about 'pornography' of our kind.

When I first came onto the Forums, I admit I was pretty scared about what kind of weirdos
I might meet, and I've been amazed just what a lot of really lovely, kind, delightful people
I've found. If any of the 'active' members here really are wicked monsters, they're certainly
concealing that side of themselves very skillfully!

I do have the same worry:what if some twisted maniac got inspired what can be found on this (and others) forums.

Its only a movie but i always thought about the end scene of "American Psycho" when i look at some of the material on this site.

For those that did not see this movie here is a short clip:
 

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I do have the same worry:what if some twisted maniac got inspired what can be found on this (and others) forums.

Its only a movie but i always thought about the end scene of "American Psycho" when i look at some of the material on this site.

For those that did not see this movie here is a short clip:
wow - thanks for the clip Hornet.. I'll be spending most of tomorrow chain sawing,
but I think I'll keep my clothes on; it's unwise to have anything flopping around...:eek:
 
But to answer the main question i also question myself some time about this erotic fantasy of mine.

I'm actually a very gentle giant of 6"2" that never did any harm to anyone and i also don't like to see people suffer for real!
(i don't slow down at accident scene:) and when i look for content to feed my fantasy,i avoid anything that portrait modern scenario,that's why i prefer Roman or Fantasy scene.

But i like to see a pretty girl nailed to a cross,maybe deep down i imagine that i'm the girl exposing herself for all to see.
 
This has been a very interesting and thought-provoking discussion thread.

One issue that hasn't really come up in this discussion so far that does trouble me a bit,
is whether the kinds of images and stories we enjoy here could be influencing/ encouraging
anybody to actually behave in the ways they portray?
That, of course, is the fear behind the chronic moral panic about 'pornography' of our kind.
A sick individual can be inspired by anything.
Charles Manson found inspiration in the songs of The Beatles.
David "Son of Sam" Berkowitz claimed to be inspired by the barking of this neighbor's dog.
The Bible has inspired more heinous acts than all the porn ever produced.
The true inspiration lies in the mind of the individual, not any outside source.
 
Like hornet I've never knowingly hurt anyone and don't wish to. And like Naraku, I believe a person can be inspired by anything.
My first bondage inspirations came from B-movie cowboys-and-indians, especially if a girl was tied.
My first self-bondage inspiration came from a mermaid film (I wonder what it's like if my legs are firmly fixed together?)
My first lusting over pictures of scantily clad girls was in books of fairy stories.
Because I know which house I was in, I can say that all this happened before I was 11 years old.

Influences (good, just different, or evil) can come from any source. We should not be afraid to express ours. Is it the person who makes the car, or the person who drives it, that kills the pedestrian?
 
But to answer the main question i also question myself some time about this erotic fantasy of mine.

I'm actually a very gentle giant of 6"2" that never did any harm to anyone and i also don't like to see people suffer for real!
(i don't slow down at accident scene:) and when i look for content to feed my fantasy,i avoid anything that portrait modern scenario,that's why i prefer Roman or Fantasy scene.

But i like to see a pretty girl nailed to a cross,maybe deep down i imagine that i'm the girl exposing herself for all to see.
I have experienced bondage and disciple (usually as the dominant) but have never and would never go beyond that. I don't look down on those that do but it is not what I can do.

Your fantasies are yours, even when shared, and if your realities go beyond what I or others would do if you are happy it is not up to me to judge.

I could never condone inflicting some of my fantasies even on a willing partner, but enjoying them for what they are I see no harm...

Tree
 
How do? Just curious. No need to answer if you don’t want to.

I am considerably younger than my brothers. My oldest brother is 22 years older than I am and my youngest is 10. I was 1 at my oldest brother's wedding (which must have been really weird).

He had quite a collection of men's magazines, and Gor novels and a really kinky book by Anne Rice with serious BDSM in it. He must have packed them away before he left for college (before I was born) and forgot they were in my mother's attic. Well I am an explorer and was always going through boxes of old family pictures in the attic when under one of the stacks of boxes in a back corner I came across a box marked as his books. I opened it up and BAM!

5 pages into the first one I new this was verboten material so I wasn't telling mom but I was fascinated. I couldn't have been more than 10-11 at the time so I really didn't understand the tingly feeling I was getting 'down there' as I finished the first book(s).

Anyway a couple of years later when I was visiting him and his wife, I brought along one as bedtime reading. I inadvertently forgot to put it back in my bag when my sister-in-law came in while I was showering and found it on the bed.

She wasn't into that sort of thing but knew my brother had an interest so it wasn't hard for her to figure where I had gotten the book from.

After they had a fight royal, in which I intervened and explained how I had come into possession of the book, she calmed down. She then informed my brother he needed to have a talk with me and left the room.

So that is how my brother became my first guide into the life.

I need to state for the record that my brother (none of them) EVER had any even remotely inappropriate interactions with me.

kisses

willowfall
 
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