Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
OooopsApuanean Alps - Alpi Apuane.
That's where the Carrara marble quarries are,
Apulia is the opposite end of Italy!
So far doing research and then writing that typo!
A-hem! Next episode soon to come!
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Aunt Flavia
- Thread starter Loxuru
- Start date
So far doing research and then writing that typo!
A-hem! Next episode soon to come!
l'bogo
Venetian Mask
Probably you, when you name the city of Luna, you made a mistake. The ancient Roman city that stood in that area was called Luni, today that name was taken up to indicate a group of small villages that rise at the foot of the Apuan Alps. In Luni there is a museum with pre-Roman archaeological finds and the ruins of a Roman amphitheater.
Oooops
So far doing research and then writing that typo!
A-hem! Next episode soon to come!
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
Thanks, l'bogo
It is indeed referring to the place currently known as Luni.
According to my information, the ancient Roman name was Luna. :
Luni, Italy - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The second line says Luni was 'founded by the Romans as Luna'.
The same is in the French translation of the Wikipedia page :
Luna est le nom d'une ancienne ville de Ligurie, au sud-est de la moderne Sarzana, sur le lieu aujourd'hui de Luni antica (« le Luna antique »).
(Luna is the name of an ancient town in Liguria, south-east from modern Sarzana, on the place named today Luni antica (= antque Luna).
The Italian translation says :
Luna è stata una colonia romana fondata nel 177 ac
(Luna was a roman colony, founded in 177 BC.
In the German ranslation it is :
Luna war eine römische Kolonie, die 177 v. Chr. errichtet wurde und heute nahe dem Ort Luni Mare,
(Luna was a roman colony, founded in 177BC, near todays place Luni Mare.
So I got quiet confident about a correct historical naming.
Just mind, l'bogo, I took the usual liberties for putting up the crucifixion against the background of a social sketch. I have no idea whether marble trade worked the way I described it! Other elements that are of course not authentic Roman, but refer to today's situations : . Romans charging VAT, the executioner succesfully cheating the tax-payer, and the 'Sodalites Gyratorum', the gentry club who drop Flavia, but don't want to see Julius' abuse of his daughter, well, these are not specifically Roman, I think so, but have a universal character.
geolier
Tribune
l'bogo
Venetian Mask
You rightly point out to me that it could have been Luna the first name of the city, the thing is quite controversial; certainly the city was dedicated to the Roman divinity called Luna, but the ancient documents suggest that the name had become Luni already in Roman times. In my note, I entered the first word 'probably', leaving the true question uncertain. Since the Middle Ages the city has always been named Luni and after Ortonovo, as it has come down to us today.Thanks, l'bogo
It is indeed referring to the place currently known as Luni.
According to my information, the ancient Roman name was Luna. :
Luni, Italy - Wikipedia
The second line says Luni was 'founded by the Romans as Luna'.
The same is in the French translation of the Wikipedia page :
Luna est le nom d'une ancienne ville de Ligurie, au sud-est de la moderne Sarzana, sur le lieu aujourd'hui de Luni antica (« le Luna antique »).
(Luna is the name of an ancient town in Liguria, south-east from modern Sarzana, on the place named today Luni antica (= antque Luna).
The Italian translation says :
Luna è stata una colonia romana fondata nel 177 ac
(Luna was a roman colony, founded in 177 BC.
In the German ranslation it is :
Luna war eine römische Kolonie, die 177 v. Chr. errichtet wurde und heute nahe dem Ort Luni Mare,
(Luna was a roman colony, founded in 177BC, near todays place Luni Mare.
So I got quiet confident about a correct historical naming.
Just mind, l'bogo, I took the usual liberties for putting up the crucifixion against the background of a social sketch. I have no idea whether marble trade worked the way I described it! Other elements that are of course not authentic Roman, but refer to today's situations : . Romans charging VAT, the executioner succesfully cheating the tax-payer, and the 'Sodalites Gyratorum', the gentry club who drop Flavia, but don't want to see Julius' abuse of his daughter, well, these are not specifically Roman, I think so, but have a universal character.
| «Se tu riguardi Luni e Urbisaglia come sono ite, e come se ne vanno di retro ad esse Chiusi e Sinigaglia, udir come le schiatte si disfanno non ti parrà nova cosa né forte, poscia che le cittadi termine hanno.» «If you are talking about Luni and Urbisaglia how are it, and how they leave back to them Chiusi and Sinigaglia, hear how the thighs unravel you will not find anything strong or new, then the term cities have. " |
| (Dante Alighieri, Divina Commedia, Paradiso XVI, 73-78) |
Regards!
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Frank Petrexa
Tribune
Last edited:
l'bogo
Venetian Mask
Thanks Frank!
«Se tu riguardi Luni e Urbisaglia
come sono ite, e come se ne vanno
di retro ad esse Chiusi e Sinigaglia,
udir come le schiatte si disfanno
non ti parrà nova cosa né forte,
poscia che le cittadi termine hanno.»
"If you consider Luni and Orbisaglia,
How they have perished and how after them
Chiusi and Senigallia now follow,
No longer will you find it strange or hard
To hear how families finally come to fail
When even cities meet a fatal end."
This one have a right sense than the poor 'Google' translate text...
We have to ask to Eulalia for the better translation....
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piraland
Tribune
I will be very happy to discover it!Aunt Flavia has been a little bit distracted by RL issues, but the next chapter is about to be finished now. Posting this evening or tomorrow.
crumera
Crucifier of Pixels
I can imagine Aunt Flavia is distracted by current eventsAunt Flavia has been a little bit distracted by RL issues, but the next chapter is about to be finished now. Posting this evening or tomorrow.
Very hard to write or dictate something while crucified! jk
windar
Teller of Tales
If you're referring to the New Testament, the accounts were written between 40 and 70 years or so after the event, so the witnesses either were not present or didn't have fresh memories.
The honest truth I think is we really don't know how much talking would have gone on. Some people talk through just about anything (not thinking of any one in particular
)All this concern for Moore. What about her poor partner who has to keep rescuing her?
But seriously, while twice is pushing your luck, I don't know for sure that a crucifixion with nails would leave one "crippled and unable to walk". Someone on this site was actually crucified with nails. She says she has residual pain and certainly doesn't recommend ever doing it, but I don't believe she is crippled. Look at the motorcycle stuntman, Evel Knievel. He broke every bone in his body over the course of his life and kept doing stunts and died at 70 of pulmonary disease, probably unrelated to his injuries.
PS-OK, Knievel got Hep C from the transfusions related to his injuries, but that is a problem with the blood supply...
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Frank Petrexa
Tribune
For what it is worth, Flavius (because he was "adopted" by Vespasian after he went over to the Roman side in the Jewish revolt) Josephus saw some aquaintances crucified, and intervened with Titus. They were "taken down" and "given the best of care". One died, but the other survived. I assume nails were used, but the text doesn't say.If you're referring to the New Testament, the accounts were written between 40 and 70 years or so after the event, so the witnesses either were not present or didn't have fresh memories.
The honest truth I think is we really don't know how much talking would have gone on. Some people talk through just about anything (not thinking of any one in particular
All this concern for Moore. What about her poor partner who has to keep rescuing her?
But seriously, while twice is pushing your luck, I don't know for sure that a crucifixion with nails would leave one "crippled and unable to walk". Someone on this site was actually crucified with nails. She says she has residual pain and certainly doesn't recommend ever doing it, but I don't believe she is crippled. Look at the motorcycle stuntman, Evel Knievel. He broke every bone in his body over the course of his life and kept doing stunts and died at 70 of pulmonary disease, probably unrelated to his injuries.
PS-OK, Knievel got Hep C from the transfusions related to his injuries, but that is a problem with the blood supply...
Frank Petrexa
Tribune
At least Google translate is free. (If it were Microsoft, they would have the gall to charge for it, bad as it is.)Thanks Frank!
«Se tu riguardi Luni e Urbisaglia
come sono ite, e come se ne vanno
di retro ad esse Chiusi e Sinigaglia,
udir come le schiatte si disfanno
non ti parrà nova cosa né forte,
poscia che le cittadi termine hanno.»
"If you consider Luni and Orbisaglia,
How they have perished and how after them
Chiusi and Senigallia now follow,
No longer will you find it strange or hard
To hear how families finally come to fail
When even cities meet a fatal end."
This one have a right sense than the poor 'Google' translate text...
We have to ask to Eulalia for the better translation....
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
A think that there still is a matter of scale. A real crucifixion involves suspension to the cross (one can interpret it as a form of 'suspension' of the body, in fact, the condemned is continuously 'falling', but held back by the nails), lasting hours, even days. Every BDSM site warns (or should warn) about the permanently damaging effects of prolonged suspension on muscles and tendons.
Furthermore, the damage inflicted by nails is very specific. Nailing the wrists through the carpal tunnel, severes and cuts off sinews that control the motion of the hands. The same, most likely for the feet or ankles. Also the blood supply to the hands and feet can be irreparably damaged after a prolonged suspension.
'Giving the best care' could hence mean 'amputation' as well.
old slave
FELIS RESPICIENS
We need to start with a loquacious, pretentious title.
"A randomized, double-blind trial of the acute and chronic consequences of invasive and non-invasive suspensions of the distal limbs of the unclad female, with particular reference to the physiological, haematological and microbiological changes thereto, in the context of historical re-enactments of judicial termination of animate existence."
[The exact method of nailing with the carnifex blinded will be the subject of another grant application]
Loxuru
Graf von Kreuzigung
5.
The sun had just gone down below the horizon. What was left of the day was the glow of twilight. An unusually intense red twilight. Flavia welcomed the evening with a relief. The best moment of the day : after the heath of the sun, before the cool -and frightening dark - of the night.
The sun had battered her skin for hours, she got tired and terribly thirsty. All condemned had begged to drink. The soldiers had given them some sour wine, from barrels confiscated during tax controls, and which they kept in their outpost. It helped, but not for long. A fresh sea breeze cooled her down a little bit. Against the red sky, the others were mere black silhouettes. A single guard stood on the rampart of the outpost, indifferent, looking forward to being relieved and have a drink in the cantina. There were the slave, the Greeks, Drusus, all suffering in silence, apart from an introvert moaning. The laments, the begs for mercy, the complaints about pain and thirst, were less and less addressed to the outside world. Despair had turned into self-pity. Even although they were conscient about their guilt, their anger had turned into the deep regret, to have ever considered the crime they were crucified for. Meanwhile, there was still a sense of narcissism too, an extreme feeling that the cruelty of their punishment had been a great injustice inflicted to them.
Then, a flash of pain, somewhere in their body, reminded them of another reality!
Flavia still could not chase bad thoughts. Her son! She had not heard of him since weeks! He was somewhere on campaign with his legion. At this very moment, he was doing something, totally unaware of what was happening at home! How would he react when he would hear the news about her death, and the way it happened? She had not even been given the opportunity to write him, to say goodbye, to say sorry, to explain things. On one hand, she had deeply wished he had been around on this difficult day, to protect her. On the other hand, it was better he had not seen her in this humiliation.
Her hands, that had clasped together into a firm fist during the nailing, even had lost all sensation, except for a stone cold numbness. The same feeling was developing in her toes. The shear pain caused by the nails, had numbed out, apart from occasional flashes, terrible enough to make her shriek. It was as if the pain had spread over all her body. Her muscles felt painful from her shoulders to her wrists, and from her waist down to her knees and her calves. The pain in the upper and lower limbs was linked by an ache in her back and pressure on her chest.
Bleeding of the nail wounds, that had first looked intense and unstoppable, had ceased since hours, apart from some trickle from time to time. Only her rectum kept bleeding regularly. It kept dripping on her heels.
The first stars became visible in the dark sky.
Darkness turned the silhouettes of the crucified into shadows.
The long hours on the cross had broken her resistance. Occasionally, Flavia’s mood drifted to acceptance. The gruesome thought that she was going to die here on the cross, she perceived as an injustice that happened to her, since her life and her future were brutally cut short, then then was chased away by the acceptance that this should have been her destiny. Even though she had not held any moment in her life that it would end in this way. But as things now stood, forced, whether she liked it or not, made her look back on her own life! At any moment, at every memory of her past life, now hung the prospect that she once would ever die on the cross.
That she would die of it? Felt strangely normal! Gone was the despair that had haunted her for hours, and to which the ‘party’ that had been held in front of them, had reminded her constantly! That she was no more one of them, that they would go home and live on, and that for herself, there would be nothing else than agony and death!
So, despite all the pain, the thirst, the suffering, she found it during those moods of acceptance, the strange enough 'normal' that she was hanging there. She, together with Alexius and Domitia, in a company of equals, equal in their fate.
And then, a flash of pain, or an intense spasm, brought her back to a gruesome reality. And so, the next mind cycle began.
Another thought annoyed her. Just before dark, a woman walked from the outpost, and had stood in front of Drusus. She started talking, whispering, caressing and fondling his body all over.
One moment, only a few seconds, the woman turned her face towards Flavia. But since she could see only a silhouette against the twilight sky, Flavia could not discern her facial expression.
Before dark, the woman left the site, accompanied by the relieved guards from the outpost.
But in Flavia’s mind, it was still twilight! She had never considered that Drusus could have a wife. She never had asked about it. She had thought he was a loner. Another sad misjudgment she had made, particularly sad for the woman.
It was still twilight in Flavia’s mind! She could not chase the view of Drusus and the woman!
(the end)
The sun had just gone down below the horizon. What was left of the day was the glow of twilight. An unusually intense red twilight. Flavia welcomed the evening with a relief. The best moment of the day : after the heath of the sun, before the cool -and frightening dark - of the night.
The sun had battered her skin for hours, she got tired and terribly thirsty. All condemned had begged to drink. The soldiers had given them some sour wine, from barrels confiscated during tax controls, and which they kept in their outpost. It helped, but not for long. A fresh sea breeze cooled her down a little bit. Against the red sky, the others were mere black silhouettes. A single guard stood on the rampart of the outpost, indifferent, looking forward to being relieved and have a drink in the cantina. There were the slave, the Greeks, Drusus, all suffering in silence, apart from an introvert moaning. The laments, the begs for mercy, the complaints about pain and thirst, were less and less addressed to the outside world. Despair had turned into self-pity. Even although they were conscient about their guilt, their anger had turned into the deep regret, to have ever considered the crime they were crucified for. Meanwhile, there was still a sense of narcissism too, an extreme feeling that the cruelty of their punishment had been a great injustice inflicted to them.
Then, a flash of pain, somewhere in their body, reminded them of another reality!
Flavia still could not chase bad thoughts. Her son! She had not heard of him since weeks! He was somewhere on campaign with his legion. At this very moment, he was doing something, totally unaware of what was happening at home! How would he react when he would hear the news about her death, and the way it happened? She had not even been given the opportunity to write him, to say goodbye, to say sorry, to explain things. On one hand, she had deeply wished he had been around on this difficult day, to protect her. On the other hand, it was better he had not seen her in this humiliation.
Her hands, that had clasped together into a firm fist during the nailing, even had lost all sensation, except for a stone cold numbness. The same feeling was developing in her toes. The shear pain caused by the nails, had numbed out, apart from occasional flashes, terrible enough to make her shriek. It was as if the pain had spread over all her body. Her muscles felt painful from her shoulders to her wrists, and from her waist down to her knees and her calves. The pain in the upper and lower limbs was linked by an ache in her back and pressure on her chest.
Bleeding of the nail wounds, that had first looked intense and unstoppable, had ceased since hours, apart from some trickle from time to time. Only her rectum kept bleeding regularly. It kept dripping on her heels.
The first stars became visible in the dark sky.
Darkness turned the silhouettes of the crucified into shadows.
The long hours on the cross had broken her resistance. Occasionally, Flavia’s mood drifted to acceptance. The gruesome thought that she was going to die here on the cross, she perceived as an injustice that happened to her, since her life and her future were brutally cut short, then then was chased away by the acceptance that this should have been her destiny. Even though she had not held any moment in her life that it would end in this way. But as things now stood, forced, whether she liked it or not, made her look back on her own life! At any moment, at every memory of her past life, now hung the prospect that she once would ever die on the cross.
That she would die of it? Felt strangely normal! Gone was the despair that had haunted her for hours, and to which the ‘party’ that had been held in front of them, had reminded her constantly! That she was no more one of them, that they would go home and live on, and that for herself, there would be nothing else than agony and death!
So, despite all the pain, the thirst, the suffering, she found it during those moods of acceptance, the strange enough 'normal' that she was hanging there. She, together with Alexius and Domitia, in a company of equals, equal in their fate.
And then, a flash of pain, or an intense spasm, brought her back to a gruesome reality. And so, the next mind cycle began.
Another thought annoyed her. Just before dark, a woman walked from the outpost, and had stood in front of Drusus. She started talking, whispering, caressing and fondling his body all over.
One moment, only a few seconds, the woman turned her face towards Flavia. But since she could see only a silhouette against the twilight sky, Flavia could not discern her facial expression.
Before dark, the woman left the site, accompanied by the relieved guards from the outpost.
But in Flavia’s mind, it was still twilight! She had never considered that Drusus could have a wife. She never had asked about it. She had thought he was a loner. Another sad misjudgment she had made, particularly sad for the woman.
It was still twilight in Flavia’s mind! She could not chase the view of Drusus and the woman!
(the end)