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Legionaries as Executioners, Not Likely .......

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Hi jedakk,
Mamma Mia was brill!!. 150lbs for a man sounds right. The calculations are really beginning to interest me. I'd like to clarify definitions of torsion and how a wrought iron nail could fail and what units of force, stress etc to use. Diagrams would be helpful. I'll write tomorrow and thanks for your comments on crucified lesbians....talk about a silent majority!!
Best wishes
Julie
 
Just a quick question Jedakk, what are the chances of hitting an artery if a nail is driven through a wrist or forearm just above the wrist, & similarly an ankle or foot?
 
I've never been able to see how hitting an artery would be a big issue. All of the information about impalement injuries talks about the tamponade effect, where the impaling object plugs the wound. In the case of a tapered Roman nail, it would compress the soft tissues around it as it passed through, and provided that the nails were placed up against the bones of the wrist and feet, there's not much danger that I can see of the wounds tearing or enlarging under stress. The compression of the flesh would create what is called a "preloading" effect, the same as you encounter in other prestressed systems such as prestressed concrete or even a wooden barrel with iron hoops. You have to generate enough pull or tension to cancel out that compression before the wound could possibly pull open and bleed.

I do think that there would be some minor internal bleeding that would show up as bruising running down the forearms from the wounds, but that would take several hours to appear. This is similar to what you see with a sprained ankle, where internal bleeding flows downward by gravity and pools just above the heel, forming a bruise that can be substantially below the site of the actual injury.

Also talking about blood, I think that you would see an odd-looking post-mortem lividity in a dead crucifixion victim where the lower half of his/her body would become very dark with the solids in the blood settling by gravity while the upper part would be very pale. You would see light patches on the buttocks and soles of the feet where they press against the cross. Not erotic, just an observation and the kind of thing I would incorporate in a story for interest and realism. So if you're watching CSI on tv and they find a body like that, it could be because it had hung on a cross for several hours after death.

Stuff like "The Passion of the Christ" is really over the top in the gore department, just impossible in reality. My opinion is that there would be a lot more blood from a good whipping than one would see due to the crucifixion process.


Jedakk
 
Humans were much smaller (on average) back during the empire. And native Latins seemed to have been shorter than other groups as they always talk about the size of the barbarians.

As an example your "average" American Civil war soldier stood in at between 5' 7" and 5' 10" and weighted less than 160 pounds. And that was 1400 years after the last legionairy went down to defeat.

150 pounds for a person may even be a little on the high side but makes for a good calculation base.

Now if we downsize the person, we also have to downsize the bone size meaning that the nail would do significantly more damage to the bones (for example completely shatter a heel bone). That's one reason why I find the heel bone of the cruxed man theory a little weak.

Too many times archeologists read into the artifacts what they want to read into it.

Remember that early archeologists thought the bible was accurate so they kept trying to interpet Pharonic Egypt using the kings as lined up in the bible. What they saw and what they read didn't line up. It was only when they tossed ou tth ebible and just looked at the evidence that things dropped into place.

the same thing happened in the 60's in Mezo-Central America. The Mayans (as was current) were a peaceful, communing with nature civilization because that's what the hippie archeologists wanted to see.

We now know they were a bunch of sun-worshipping human sacrifacing over-populating the region humans.

I think he went looking for evidence of cruxing and 'found' what he was looking for.

kisses

willowfall
 
Dont forget the engineers. I bet the up tight Romans demanded the crosses be plunb and square.
 
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