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Notre-Dame ...

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Frank Petrexa said:
The timbers could be replaced, the wood treated, and maybe the "forest" in the "attic" could be "compartmentalized" with fire walls among the timbers and a sprinkler system added.
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Yes, it could be a possibility ...

Frank Petrexa said:
It sounds like there was an alarm system, but the fire was in an obscure place and wasn't found until the second alarm.
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I heard that too ...
 
messaline said:
Perhaps = pessimists ... but more ...
... or disgruntled people ?
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yes, it's not easy to catch the exact sense of 'esprits chagrins' -
ill-natured, fault-finders, grumblers, in Scots we'd call them 'thrawn'

I share your feelings, Messaline, I like 'Gothic revival' architecture of the 19th century,
especially the work of A W Pugin, the English equivalent of Viollet-le-Duc -
and (unlike Frank) I have great respect for the architectural and engineering genius
of the medieval builders of structures like Notre Dame. It is a very precise and delicate balance,
obviously the destruction of the roof timbers, and of part of the vaulting,
and the intense heat will have threatened the stability (as happened with the Glasgow Art School,
our heart-rending fire catastrophe last year), but I've faith that it will remain standing.

I think some replacement for the spire will be needed, it's become so much a part of the skyline
(and it's good that the statues of the Apostles and Evangelists that were around the base of the spire
were lowered to the ground for repairs only last week, so they could be replaced) -
and it seems to me the building would look unbalanced
with those magnificent west towers, but nothing over the central crossing
(though the same could be said of Westminster Abbey)

The interior is a rather different question, it depends how much has been destroyed,
and in any case V-le-D's layout had been thoroughly messed up by the Vatican II reforms,
it would be good if - when the roof has been replaced and the building made stable -
some sensitive artists and designers could replace what's been lost
with a blend of old and new, not just a slavish reconstruction.
 
Eulalia said:
yes, it's not easy to catch the exact sense of 'esprits chagrins' -
ill-natured, fault-finders, grumblers, in Scots we'd call them 'thrawn'

I share your feelings, Messaline, I like 'Gothic revival' architecture of the 19th century,
especially the work of A W Pugin, the English equivalent of Viollet-le-Duc -
and (unlike Frank) I have great respect for the architectural and engineering genius
of the medieval builders of structures like Notre Dame. It is a very precise and delicate balance,
obviously the destruction of the roof timbers, and of part of the vaulting,
and the intense heat will have threatened the stability (as happened with the Glasgow Art School,
our heart-rending fire catastrophe last year), but I've faith that it will remain standing.

I think some replacement for the spire will be needed, it's become so much a part of the skyline
(and it's good that the statues of the Apostles and Evangelists that were around the base of the spire
were lowered to the ground for repairs only last week, so they could be replaced) -
and it seems to me the building would look unbalanced
with those magnificent west towers, but nothing over the central crossing
(though the same could be said of Westminster Abbey)

The interior is a rather different question, it depends how much has been destroyed,
and in any case V-le-D's layout had been thoroughly messed up by the Vatican II reforms,
it would be good if - when the roof has been replaced and the building made stable -
some sensitive artists and designers could replace what's been lost
with a blend of old and new, not just a slavish reconstruction.
Click to expand...

Yep, somebody always finds a way to blame Vatican II when something happens.
 
Barbaria1 said:
According to Wikipedia with regard to controversy surrounding his work on Notre Dame:

Viollet-le-Duc's restorations sometimes involved non-historical additions, either to assure the stability of the building, or sometimes simply to maintain the harmony of the design. The flèche, or spire of Notre-Dame de Paris, which had been constructed in about 1250, was removed in 1786 after it was damaged by the wind. Viollet-le-Duc designed and constructed a new spire, ornamented with statuary, which was taller than the original and modified to resist the weather, but in harmony with the rest of the design. In the 20th century, his flèche was a target for critics.

He was also criticized later for his modifications of the choir of Notre-Dame, which had been rebuilt in the Louis XIV style during the reign of that king. Viollet-le-Duc took out the old choir, including the altar where Napoleon Bonaparte had been crowned Emperor and replaced them with a gothic altar and decoration which he designed. When he modified the choir, he also constructed new bays with small gothic rose windows modeled on those in the church of Chars, in the Oise Valley.[10] Some historians condemned these restorations as non-historical invention. His defenders pointed out that Viollet-le-Duc did not make any decisions on the restoration of Notre-Dame by himself; all of his plans were approved by Prosper Mérimée, the Inspector of Historical Monuments, and by the Commission of historic monuments.[31]

He was criticized for the abundance of gothic gargoyles, chimeras, fleurons, and pinnacles which he added to Notre-Dame Cathedral. These decorations had existed in the Middle Ages but had largely been removed during the reign of Louis XIV. The last original gargoyles had been taken down in 1813. He modeled the new gargoyles and monsters on examples from other cathedrals of the period.[10]

He was later criticized also for the stained glass windows he designed and had made for the chapels around the ground level of the cathedral, which feature intricate gothic designs in grisaille, which allow more light into the church. The contemporary view of the controversy of his restoration is summarized on a descriptive panel near the altar of the cathedral: "The great restoration, carried to fruition by Viollet-le-Duc following the death of Lassus, supplied new radiance to the Cathedral- whatever reservations one might have about the choices that were made. The work of the nineteenth century is now as much a part of the architectural history of Notre-Dame as that undertaken in previous centuries."[32]

The restoration of ramparts of Carcassonne was also criticized in the 20th century. His critics pointed out that the pointed caps of the towers he constructed were more typical of northern France, not the region where Carcassonne was located, near the Spanish border. His critics also claimed that Viollet-le-Duc sought a "condition of completeness" which never actually existed at any given time.[33] The principal counter-argument made by Viollet-le-Duc's defenders was that, without his prompt restorations, many of the buildings that he restored would have been lost, and that he did the best that he could with the knowledge that was then available.
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It is a fact that however competent you are, and regardless of your skill and vision, people will always find something to criticise.
 
Eulalia said:
yes, it's not easy to catch the exact sense of 'esprits chagrins' -
ill-natured, fault-finders, grumblers, in Scots we'd call them 'thrawn'
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Yes, fault-finders, grumblers seem rather good ... with a bit of "grouchy" ... :D

Eulalia said:
but I've faith that it will remain standing.
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Like we say : The hope does to live ...

Eulalia said:
I think some replacement for the spire will be needed, it's become so much a part of the skyline
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With ... 830035e7ef585b7e5ad3838415f7 (1).jpeg
Without ... 830035e7ef585b7e5ad3838415f7.jpeg ... make your choice ...

...but always under the sight of Messa ...

830035e7ef585b7e5ad3838415f7 (1).jpeg :rolleyes:
 
messaline said:
With ...
Without ... ... make your choice
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I kind of like the look of it without... not sure why .. perhaps because I am accustomed to seeing English cathedrals with their massive central towers and that makes the more spindly tower appear strange to me.
 
messaline said:
Messaline has ... and they'are Premium French Crucifixion Building Wood ... :D
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I am sorry my dear Messaline, but 15cm square by 2 to 4 m will not help very much. (What I presume is in your Cruxstore.)
Multiply those sizes by 10 and you might be right.
After all a Patibalum 2 to 2.5 m long would suffice as your armspan cannot be more than one fathom (1.8 m) at most.
As for the Stipes - 3 to 4 m long just right, after all we want to fondle your fine body before you snuff it.

On Euronews just now a correspondant was saying, "Notre Dame will be restored, maybe not in wood."

(Apologies for this banality, but we are a Crux site (though we need something to cheer us)).
 
Apparently they didn't install sprinklers deliberately because they were afraid the electrical wiring would cause a fire.
But, they did have alarms (batteries? those can cause fires too).
"Les pompiers" were apparently competent and heroic, and had rehearsed a fire at Notre Dame several times. They had boats on the Seine to provide water. The lead ceiling prevented them from tackling the fire on the roof from below. It sounds like if it weren't for their professionalism a lot more would have been lost.
 
windar said:
They are holding an international competition to design a replacement for the steeple. Calling all artists (corporate sponsorships available)!
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That is completely delirious : to talk about restoration before to know if only the monument is yet available is to react with no common sense ; but I'm not astonished by this decision coming from our Jupiter / President Macron !
Whatsoever !
 
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windar said:
They are holding an international competition to design a replacement for the steeple. Calling all artists (corporate sponsorships available)!
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Do you think a larger than life statue of Messa on a cross might stand a chance?:rolleyes:

Sorry, I know this is a time to be serious, and I am as horrified by what happened as anyone, but the image crossed my mind.
 
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