Bobnearled = Bobinder

[bobinder]

Until you mentioned the color inconsistencies between her hands and arms, I never noticed them. I was focusing on her other body parts. I definitely think you captured the sense of the cruelty of crucifixion in her face. Very well done.
I do enjoy your explanations, and the behind the scenes look of your artwork bobinder. Very interesting.

Thanks, I'll keep it going while the level of interest remains high.

 

[bobinder]

Crux Fashion 1


“It's big and it's bland
Full of tension and fear -
They do it over there but we don't do it here.
Fashion! Turn to the left
Fashion! Turn to the right
Oooh, fashion!”

(From 'Fashion' by David Bowie 1980)

What is the well-dressed crux victim wearing this season? Predictably much the same as ever - either very little or nothing at all. Which is not to say that there are no interesting exceptions, although the over-dressed condemned tend to be something of a rarity in crux art. I am intrigued by depictions, frequently of considerable artistic merit, of fully clothed victims, whilst wondering if there isn't a missed opportunity. Unless the clothing is a timeless classical gown, the victim's garb can make an unnerving statement about the period being portrayed. Perhaps it tends to make less of a statement about the potential for humiliating public exposure.

Since the Dark Ages artists have sought respectable (i.e. biblical or mythological) opportunities for depicting the nude and the subject of crucifixion was literally a godsend. It combined nudity (or near-nudity) with an excess of sadism in a significant biblical-historical event. Little wonder that so many painters and sculptors found it irresistible, even if they were responding to the insatiable demand for ecclesiastic commissions. The Renaissance spawned countless 'Flagellations' and 'Crucifixions', the impact of which was merely diluted by over-exposure to the masses who were obliged to attend the churches where they hung. Even today I suspect there must be something exceptional about a crucifixion image for it to have the same impact on the casual observer - the power to shock - as witnessing the real thing. We talk metaphorically about a person 'being crucified in the press'. To such an extent has Christian iconography saturated the planet (and inspired prolific crux artists to greater efforts!)

I think it was the science fiction writer Ray Bradbury who made this point many years ago in a short story (the title of which I forget, alas) featuring a time-travel agent whose most popular tourist event-destination was the crucifixion of Jesus. His fascinated bible-bashing clients kept coming back to do it again and again to the point at which the historical event lost any significance. He might as well have offered them the Via Appia. Perhaps somebody can remind me of the title or the volume which contains the story?

 

[Barbaria1]

Crux Fashion 1


“It's big and it's bland
Full of tension and fear -
They do it over there but we don't do it here.
Fashion! Turn to the left
Fashion! Turn to the right
Oooh, fashion!”

(From 'Fashion' by David Bowie 1980)

What is the well-dressed crux victim wearing this season? Predictably much the same as ever - either very little or nothing at all. Which is not to say that there are no interesting exceptions, although the over-dressed condemned tend to be something of a rarity in crux art. I am intrigued by depictions, frequently of considerable artistic merit, of fully clothed victims, whilst wondering if there isn't a missed opportunity. Unless the clothing is a timeless classical gown, the victim's garb can make an unnerving statement about the period being portrayed. Perhaps it tends to make less of a statement about the potential for humiliating public exposure.

Since the Dark Ages artists have sought respectable (i.e. biblical or mythological) opportunities for depicting the nude and the subject of crucifixion was literally a godsend. It combined nudity (or near-nudity) with an excess of sadism in a significant biblical-historical event. Little wonder that so many painters and sculptors found it irresistible, even if they were responding to the insatiable demand for ecclesiastic commissions. The Renaissance spawned countless 'Flagellations' and 'Crucifixions', the impact of which was merely diluted by over-exposure to the masses who were obliged to attend the churches where they hung. Even today I suspect there must be something exceptional about a crucifixion image for it to have the same impact on the casual observer - the power to shock - as witnessing the real thing. We talk metaphorically about a person 'being crucified in the press'. To such an extent has Christian iconography saturated the planet (and inspired prolific crux artists to greater efforts!)

I think it was the science fiction writer Ray Bradbury who made this point many years ago in a short story (the title of which I forget, alas) featuring a time-travel agent whose most popular tourist event-destination was the crucifixion of Jesus. His fascinated bible-bashing clients kept coming back to do it again and again to the point at which the historical event lost any significance. He might as well have offered them the Via Appia. Perhaps somebody can remind me of the title or the volume which contains the story?

I really liked this post ... and what you said about the use and purpose of crux art in ecclesiastical settings.

As for the pics, if that girl was me I would probably be nude, but if I had to be wearing something I would opt for the red ...

we women like matching ensembles, you know ...

and the red loin cloth matches nicely the blood at my wrists and ankles

 

[bobinder]

View attachment 379465 I really liked this post ... and what you said about the use and purpose of crux art in ecclesiastical settings.

As for the pics, if that girl was me I would probably be nude, but if I had to be wearing something I would opt for the red ...

we women like matching ensembles, you know ...

and the red loin cloth matches nicely the blood at my wrists and ankles

Thanks. This Crux Fashion chapter looks like running to four posts so I'll cover the red velvet rationale in the near future. Glad you like it.

 

[Eulalia]

Yes, this is close to my heart (well, other parts too ) -
as time-served cruxers here will know,
I like the idea of being cruxed wearing some minimal undies or loin-rag,
only to have them stripped off when I'm hanging there helpless -
it's hard to explain the sexy feeling a girl can get just from the feel of cloth against her skin,
especially when she's nearly naked, exposed and knows she's at men's mercy -
it seems to add to her (well, at least this girl's) self-consciousness
and sense of vulnerability.

Like Barb, I think I'd pick red, colour of martyrdom.

But, of course, as Thessela would remind me, I have no choice...

 

[Wragg]

I think it was the science fiction writer Ray Bradbury who made this point many years ago in a short story (the title of which I forget, alas) featuring a time-travel agent whose most popular tourist event-destination was the crucifixion of Jesus. His fascinated bible-bashing clients kept coming back to do it again and again to the point at which the historical event lost any significance. He might as well have offered them the Via Appia. Perhaps somebody can remind me of the title or the volume which contains the story?

Ray Bradbury wrote hundreds of short stories, his most famous time travel one was 'The Sound of Thunder', about a safari back to the Jurassic, but someone treads on a butterfly, and alters time. Maybe he did write one about time travel to the crucifixion, I'm not sure.

Garry Kilworth wrote one called 'Let's Go to Golgotha' in which the punch-line (spoiler alert) was that the whole crowd watching the crucifixion of Christ was composed of time travelling tourists.

 

[Barbaria1]

Yes, this is close to my heart (well, other parts too ) -
as time-served cruxers here will know,
I like the idea of being cruxed wearing some minimal undies or loin-rag,
only to have them stripped off when I'm hanging there helpless -
it's hard to explain the sexy feeling a girl can get just from the feel of cloth against her skin,
especially when she's nearly naked, exposed and knows she's at men's mercy -
it seems to add to her (well, at least this girl's) self-consciousness
and sense of vulnerability.

Like Barb, I think I'd pick red, colour of martyrdom.

But, of course, as Thessela would remind me, I have no choice...

it's hard to explain the sexy feeling a girl can get just from the feel of cloth against her skin,
especially when she's nearly naked, exposed and knows she's at men's mercy -
it seems to add to her (well, at least this girl's) self-consciousness
and sense of vulnerability.

Yes, hard to explain ... but Sooooooooooooooooooooooo true

 

[Hondoboot2]

View attachment 379465 I really liked this post ... and what you said about the use and purpose of crux art in ecclesiastical settings.

As for the pics, if that girl was me I would probably be nude, but if I had to be wearing something I would opt for the red ...

we women like matching ensembles, you know ...

and the red loin cloth matches nicely the blood at my wrists and ankles

That's funny, I also liked the red, I thought it went good with her skin and hair color

 

[Hondoboot2]

Crux Fashion 1


“It's big and it's bland
Full of tension and fear -
They do it over there but we don't do it here.
Fashion! Turn to the left
Fashion! Turn to the right
Oooh, fashion!”

(From 'Fashion' by David Bowie 1980)

What is the well-dressed crux victim wearing this season? Predictably much the same as ever - either very little or nothing at all. Which is not to say that there are no interesting exceptions, although the over-dressed condemned tend to be something of a rarity in crux art. I am intrigued by depictions, frequently of considerable artistic merit, of fully clothed victims, whilst wondering if there isn't a missed opportunity. Unless the clothing is a timeless classical gown, the victim's garb can make an unnerving statement about the period being portrayed. Perhaps it tends to make less of a statement about the potential for humiliating public exposure.

Since the Dark Ages artists have sought respectable (i.e. biblical or mythological) opportunities for depicting the nude and the subject of crucifixion was literally a godsend. It combined nudity (or near-nudity) with an excess of sadism in a significant biblical-historical event. Little wonder that so many painters and sculptors found it irresistible, even if they were responding to the insatiable demand for ecclesiastic commissions. The Renaissance spawned countless 'Flagellations' and 'Crucifixions', the impact of which was merely diluted by over-exposure to the masses who were obliged to attend the churches wherethey hung. Even today I suspect there must be something exceptional about a crucifixion image for it to have the same impact on the casual observer - the power to shock - as witnessing the real thing. We talk metaphorically about a person 'being crucified in the press'. To such an extent has Christian iconography saturated the planet (and inspired prolific crux artists to greater efforts!)

I think it was the science fiction writer Ray Bradbury who made this point many years ago in a short story (the title of which I forget, alas) featuring a time-travel agent whose most popular tourist event-destination was the crucifixion of Jesus. His fascinated bible-bashing clients kept coming back to do it again and again to the point at which the historical event lost any significance. He might as well have offered them the Via Appia. Perhaps somebody can remind me of the title or the volume which contains the story?

Great images Bobinder!

 

[phlebas]

Ray Bradbury wrote hundreds of short stories, his most famous time travel one was 'The Sound of Thunder', about a safari back to the Jurassic, but someone treads on a butterfly, and alters time. Maybe he did write one about time travel to the crucifixion, I'm not sure.

Garry Kilworth wrote one called 'Let's Go to Golgotha' in which the punch-line (spoiler alert) was that the whole crowd watching the crucifixion of Christ was composed of time travelling tourists.

You beat me to it Wragg. I was thinking of that story too, all those shouting "crucify him" were actually time travellers, a wonderful bit of circular inevitability.

The Ray Bradbury story never rang true for me, that treading on a prehistoric butterfly or shooting a dinosaur determined a presidential race

There's also Michael Moorcock's Behold the Man, where a time traveller goes back to meet Jesus, and gradually discovers that he is the Jesus of the Gospels.

In another old SF story I read years ago, a missionary to an alien race is crucified when his new flock take the Bible too literally, and they are then seriously disappointed when he doesn't rise on the third day!

Sorry for the digression, Bob, back to you

 

[Thessela]

Like Barb, I think I'd pick red, colour of martyrdom.

But, of course, as Thessela would remind me, I have no choice...

It goes with my wrists.

We have no choice!

 

[RedOrc]

I am a big fan of your artwork.

 

[bobinder]

You beat me to it Wragg. I was thinking of that story too, all those shouting "crucify him" were actually time travellers, a wonderful bit of circular inevitability.

The Ray Bradbury story never rang true for me, that treading on a prehistoric butterfly or shooting a dinosaur determined a presidential race

There's also Michael Moorcock's Behold the Man, where a time traveller goes back to meet Jesus, and gradually discovers that he is the Jesus of the Gospels.

In another old SF story I read years ago, a missionary to an alien race is crucified when his new flock take the Bible too literally, and they are then seriously disappointed when he doesn't rise on the third day!

Sorry for the digression, Bob, back to you

Thanks - no problem. I remember the missionary to the aliens too. They prepared a tasteful pleated loincloth for him as per the illustrations in the bibles he had been handing out. His protests that a personal resurrection wouldn't work fell on deaf ears, but the aliens were so convinced by his preaching that they went ahead and crucified him anyway. It's years since I read it but it might just be by Isaac Asimov?

 

[bobinder]

I am a big fan of your artwork.

Many thanks. I seem to thrive on such encouragement! More on the way.

 

[Madiosi]

Many thanks. I seem to thrive on such encouragement! More on the way.

 

[bobinder]

Ray Bradbury wrote hundreds of short stories, his most famous time travel one was 'The Sound of Thunder', about a safari back to the Jurassic, but someone treads on a butterfly, and alters time. Maybe he did write one about time travel to the crucifixion, I'm not sure.

Garry Kilworth wrote one called 'Let's Go to Golgotha' in which the punch-line (spoiler alert) was that the whole crowd watching the crucifixion of Christ was composed of time travelling tourists.

Thanks - Garry Kilworth, not Ray Bradbury - that sounds like the story I had in mind. I read it in 1974 so it'll be good to hunt it down again.

 

[bobinder]

Yes, this is close to my heart (well, other parts too ) -
as time-served cruxers here will know,
I like the idea of being cruxed wearing some minimal undies or loin-rag,
only to have them stripped off when I'm hanging there helpless -
it's hard to explain the sexy feeling a girl can get just from the feel of cloth against her skin,
especially when she's nearly naked, exposed and knows she's at men's mercy -
it seems to add to her (well, at least this girl's) self-consciousness
and sense of vulnerability.

Like Barb, I think I'd pick red, colour of martyrdom.

But, of course, as Thessela would remind me, I have no choice...

Glad you like the red - it seems to be much more popular than I anticipated. As for being the colour of martyrdom, I guess it co-ordinates with blood as well as not showing the blood stains (until they turn dark) - the gun decks of wooden fighting ships (e.g. HMS Victory) were painted red for the same reason...

 

[Barbaria1]

Glad you like the red - it seems to be much more popular than I anticipated. As for being the colour of martyrdom, I guess it co-ordinates with blood as well as not showing the blood stains (until they turn dark) - the gun decks of wooden fighting ships (e.g. HMS Victory) were painted red for the same reason...

Never knew that about fighting ships! Makes so much sense!

 

[bobinder]

Crux Fashion 2

Traditionally a crucifixion illustration had a number of basic components including nails, a halo and a crown of thorns. These were used to identify Jesus from the two thieves who were usually roped to their crosses on either side of the figure on centre stage. A further component was the titulus proclaiming in latin, Greek and Hebrew, 'Iesvs Nasoreanvs Rex Ivdaeorvm' (popularly abbreviated to 'INRI') - thus named and shamed, we can be in no doubt as to the victim's identity. The 'INRI' titulus and crown of thorns have been perpetuated in recent crux art where the subject is not otherwise recognisably a messianic pretender (e.g. a female.) Also traditional in art was the loin cloth worn by each victim during execution and this often makes an appearance in wider modern crux art. Only the 'INRI' titulus and crown of thorns are unique as references to Jesus. Thousands of others died roped or nailed to crosses, including the saints who qualify for the halos. The loin cloth is a timeless piece of apparently simple apparel featuring in images of Jesus, the ancient Egyptians, Mahatma Gandhi and prisoners of war working on the Burma-Siam Railway (some of whom were also co-incidentally crucified).

When the Romans reduced a human being to a bloody, tormented, shameful public spectacle in the name of justice and deterrence, they were not generally sensitive about the modesty of the victim. Of all their conquered territories, only in Judaea were they confronted by a nation who would rather die for their God than submit to the Emperor. Consequently, only in Judaea did the Romans exercise toleration for the local religion and make some allowances for Jewish religious law, although this was by no means universal. In a flogging, the Romans might limit the number of lashes to thirty nine because Jewish law said it should not exceed forty. In the matter of executions, Jewish law required death to occur on the same day the sentence was passed if possible, and executed corpses were not to be left on display during the hours of darkness. During the uneasy peace of the occupation, the Romans accommodated this by breaking the legs of the crucified before sunset to hasten death and allowed the bodies to be removed before nightfall.

There is much literary speculation about what else the Romans may have accommodated, usually by Christian writers, especially in view of the execution of Jewish women under Roman law and by the Roman method. If the Romans were going to make an example of someone, concessions to modesty were low on their list of considerations. If they were going to execute a person decently, they wouldn't employ crucifixion, which was abhorrent to the Jews. But because it was abhorrent and indecent, they did employ it. And because the Jews would rather die, the employment was extensive, widespread and numerically awesome. Ultimately the number of loin cloths worn at those events must remain a matter for conjecture.

 

[bobinder]

Never knew that about fighting ships! Makes so much sense!

Yes, apparently when you started slipping and sliding around your 24-pounder cannon in the heat of the battle, you were supposed to imagine the paint was still wet on the deck...