One thing that adds so much to this are the witnesses...
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Jedakk's Masterpiece
- Thread starter admihoek
- Start date
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Deleted member jedakk
Guest
I agree. When you add a lot of people watching a crucifixion, jeering or just looking on sadistically and doing nothing at all to help the victim who is being nailed to a cross, it makes it so much more powerful.
It's always been a problem for me to create large crowds of onlookers because the way I do renders from various angles, they really need to be 3D characters rather than flat 2D standups that can't be rotated to look right for a view angled down from above, for example. The Sessorium set that I use for The Serpent's Eye, with the dozen or so characters that are mostly in it runs to about a gigabyte in size. I built a VERY powerful PC to be able to render large scenes like that entirely in memory - no paging to disk - so it generally blows through a 1Gb ray-traced render in about 10 minutes.
I AM working on some decent crowd figures to use. One of the hangups has always been that really good Roman-era clothing was generally loose, draped with a lot of folds. There weren't really any 3D models for conforming clothing that looked all that good so I was stuck with what I could adapt.
Now I've learned how to use dynamic cloth, which drapes and folds pretty realistically. The results are that I've got a variety of pretty decent crowd figures I'm starting to use. Here are some renders that include some of these crowd characters in the background:
Now there are 20 Poser characters in this file and it is blown up to 1.6Gb in size. You can see more detail in the variety and texture of the clothing. That would have slowed my previous computer down to a crawl, and maybe crashed it. With what I'm using now, it's no problem. So this is the direction I'm going with new art, and I hope it will make my scenes more powerful.
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LittleSiss
Sorceress
It may time to revisit your animation????
The images are truly spectacular.
Wether you think they are to cartoon like .... They always speak to me!
The images are truly spectacular.
Wether you think they are to cartoon like .... They always speak to me!
Primus pilus
Magister Australis
So right Tree. And Jedakk's work portrays their emotional involvement, or otherwise, in the scene.
Thessela
Beloved slavegirl
oh goddess yes!
old slave
FELIS RESPICIENS
My eye, at least, is usually drawn to the naked girl, but now you have pointed them out, I can see that the witnessses are so good that they blend into the scene unobtrusively. So like all good art, the more you look the more you see. Thanks for these insights into your techniques.
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Deleted member jedakk
Guest
I agree, your eye should be drawn immediately to the subject of the scene, which is the naked girl!
I also think that having everyone around her fully clothed in the normal dress for the time - lots of draping cloth, women usually wearing ankle-length dresses, etc. really contrasts and thereby emphasizes her nakedness. Once you absorb the sight of the naked girl and her situation, you - I hope at least - start to notice the others, their body language, their expressions. Some of the women have an expression almost of sympathy for the condemned; others smirk at the sight of this slave, about to be nailed to a cross; some just seem to be enjoying the show. The men are all grinning at the sight. There's a fat old drunk with a jug of wine in his hand leering at the victim.
But there's no one poised to jump in and save Sabina from the cross.
Damian
Governor
I often look for decent pictures of Roman looking crowds or groups, difficult to find. Thanks Jedakk for the collection of screen shots you supplied, still a rich source and always looking for more!I agree, your eye should be drawn immediately to the subject of the scene, which is the naked girl!
Once you absorb the sight of the naked girl and her situation, you - I hope at least - start to notice the others, their body language, their expressions. Some of the women have an expression almost of sympathy for the condemned; others smirk at the sight of this slave, about to be nailed to a cross; some just seem to be enjoying the show. The men are all grinning at the sight. There's a fat old drunk with a jug of wine in his hand leering at the victim.
But there's no one poised to jump in and save Sabina from the cross.
lots of resources now - mainly thanks to Madiosi - on our
http://www.cruxforums.com/xf/threads/crucifixion-manipulations-construction-kit.4027/
http://www.cruxforums.com/xf/threads/crucifixion-manipulations-construction-kit.4027/
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Deleted member jedakk
Guest
Yes, I saw where you found some of those useful for some of your backgrounds. I went through the entire two seasons of "Rome" looking for useful scenes. I really thought I might be able to use some of those for background crowd scenes, but I only used a couple. Here's one:
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Deleted member jedakk
Guest
I know you prefer the 'patibulum lift' to the 'whole cross raise', Jedakk, but this is a great image, and the sight of a girl helplessly nailed to a rising cross is one I've always loved!Yes, I saw where you found some of those useful for some of your backgrounds. I went through the entire two seasons of "Rome" looking for useful scenes. I really thought I might be able to use some of those for background crowd scenes, but I only used a couple. Here's one:
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montycrusto
Guest
Holy smoke! MORE powerful???? Gods help us all....
Thessela
Beloved slavegirl
Ok, here's the other one that I called "Cleopatra's Handmaiden". The picture was originally of a crowd looking at heads that had been put up on a wall for display. I substituted a naked girl on a cross for those.
Look at them, the men, crowding around, the poor woman is a feast for them!
But what does she feel?
I want to know!
Primus pilus
Magister Australis
You have been there Thessela, in Jollyrei's story and now in Thessela's Martyrdom. Can you put yourself in her place and tell us how you would feel? To be a feast for those who would enjoy dining on your suffering?
Thessela
Beloved slavegirl
Oh Goddess!
Torn by whips.
Pierced by nails.
I am alone in my suffering. Such agony!
I cannot bear it, but I have no choice.
I am alone, in this crowd.
They see a woman helpless and tortured for their pleasure.
There is no sympathy, no relief. Only their selfish lust.
And my unending pain and humiliation.
Primus pilus
Magister Australis
Thank you Thessela. To look at an image is one thing, to imagine the thoughts and feelings another. To hear the thoughts of one who has suffered, as she does adds the reality.
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Deleted member jedakk
Guest
I know you prefer the 'patibulum lift' to the 'whole cross raise', Jedakk, but this is a great image, and the sight of a girl helplessly nailed to a rising cross is one I've always loved!
Well, no I actually think that raising the whole cross with the victim nailed by her wrists is very dramatic - a word I overuse, but that's what I'm looking for when I create a scene. I did some scenes of that sequence in The Serpent's Eye too, but with a girl with her wrists tied on an X cross. Here's the sequence:
Lucilla rips off her own loincloth, walks to her cross and sits down on it, sliding her butt down, placing her feet, positioning herself to be crucified.
After a moment's hesitation, she lies back and offers her wrists to be tied to the cross. She knows what is about to happen and she fights back her fear while the executioners do their work.
With Lucilla's wrists tied securely, the executioners take hold of her cross and lift. She braces herself with her feet, but the rough wood rasps against her bare buttocks and back as she begins to slip, little by little. She begins to panic.
The cross reaches its tipping point, where it is on the point of falling into the hole. Lucilla's arms are outstretched, holding almost all of her weight. She screams in panic as she feels the cross begin to drop, anticipating the hard shock when it hits the bottom of its hole.
More to follow...
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Deleted member jedakk
Guest
The rest of the sequence:
When the cross drops and hits the bottom of the hole, Lucilla's shoulders are nearly pulled out of their sockets. The cross does not settle into a vertical position; instead, it continues to tip forward until it comes to rest leaning, with Lucilla dangling by her wrists, legs flailing uselessly.
In no hurry, the executioners allow Lucilla to hang by her wrists until her struggling subsides before they begin to adjust her cross so that it's vertical and fill in the hole.
With the cross vertical, Lucilla struggles to find some purchase with her feet that will relieve her arms. Her outstretched legs leave her in a very vulnerable, humiliating position, impossible for the executioners to ignore and let pass without giving it the attention she deserves. And for a moment before the suffering grows worse, despite her angry protests, she gives herself over to the brief pleasure...
Ok, I'll stop here. Lucilla is a story within a story, and this goes on. By the way, the girl in the red dress watching is Sabina; the crucifixion of Lucilla is what pushed her past her limits onto the path that led to her own crucifixion.
When the cross drops and hits the bottom of the hole, Lucilla's shoulders are nearly pulled out of their sockets. The cross does not settle into a vertical position; instead, it continues to tip forward until it comes to rest leaning, with Lucilla dangling by her wrists, legs flailing uselessly.
In no hurry, the executioners allow Lucilla to hang by her wrists until her struggling subsides before they begin to adjust her cross so that it's vertical and fill in the hole.
With the cross vertical, Lucilla struggles to find some purchase with her feet that will relieve her arms. Her outstretched legs leave her in a very vulnerable, humiliating position, impossible for the executioners to ignore and let pass without giving it the attention she deserves. And for a moment before the suffering grows worse, despite her angry protests, she gives herself over to the brief pleasure...
Ok, I'll stop here. Lucilla is a story within a story, and this goes on. By the way, the girl in the red dress watching is Sabina; the crucifixion of Lucilla is what pushed her past her limits onto the path that led to her own crucifixion.
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The rest of the sequence:
When the cross drops and hits the bottom of the hole, Lucilla's shoulders are nearly pulled out of their sockets. The cross does not settle into a vertical position; instead, it continues to tip forward until it comes to rest leaning, with Lucilla dangling by her wrists, legs flailing uselessly.
In no hurry, the executioners allow Lucilla to hang by her wrists until her struggling subsides before they begin to adjust her cross so that it's vertical and fill in the hole.
With the cross vertical, Lucilla struggles to find some purchase with her feet that will relieve her arms. Her outstretched legs leave her in a very vulnerable, humiliating position, impossible for the executioners to ignore and let pass without giving it the attention she deserves. And for a moment before the suffering grows worse, despite her angry protests, she gives herself over to the brief pleasure...
Ok, I'll stop here. Lucilla is a story within a story, and this goes on. By the way, the girl in the red dress watching is Sabina; the crucifixion of Lucilla is what pushed her past her limits onto the path that led to her own crucifixion.
Actually, some of my greatest crux raising treats down the years have been courtesy of Jedakk
Here is an early favourite from many years ago:
Ever since my earliest days on Yahoo Crux Jedakk's been supplying amazing images!
It's just that, in those days I was a 'lurker' and I never said "Thank you"
A very belated "thank-you", Jedakk!