montycrusto artworks

[Fantasmo]

Not everybody has the skills or resources of artists you mention. I suppose you don't like manips either but with my older age the fingers don't work like they used to. I did more than a bit of original art but I can't do it anymore. So you have made your point. People can agree or disagree.

As a matter of fact I do like manips a lot.
I do that once in a while myself (I add an example where I maniped the skewers away because a reader felt it is needed that he complains about not liking the skewers instead of being grateful, shutting up and helping himself)
There are various artists who do magnificent work, Arcimboldo, Damien for example, to name two who publish here.
There are others like you and Messa that I am following with interest.
As outlined, I welcome AI and any other means that enable individuals to visualize their imagination. As long as it is non commercial, there are only a few side concerns like "what will it do to the model, if she finds herself crucified or whatever.

But don't fool yourself: The billions to generate generative AI are not spent to provide free means to express themselves to mankind, they are spent to make offerings to companies like "spend 10'000 a year on our product instead of 80'000 on a human artist".

Do I think most manips are art? No, they are "creativity".
Do I appreciate them anyways: Yes, I appreciate any creativity, and even renders on a lesser level of quality take OWN effort and learning to an extent that is immediately well beyond what simple AI stuff takes.
Do I think that stuff like Arcimboldo and Damian are art: Yes I do, it takes considerable skill and effort to blend things like they do.

As for personal view, I said myself: Each their own.

As a final note: Many things would be viewed differently, if the original artist or artists were given credit.

 

[Fantasmo]

Therein lies the rub. I don't believe for a second that anyone is actively trying to displace any artists. They either simply don't consider the consequences of being able to create AI art that mimic's an artist's style, or they don't give a shit.

Thats complete nonsense. The stupidity of corporations hast no limits in such domains.
They even think they can replace (already incapable) HR stuff by AI systems and the complain there be a lack of specialists-

For example, say some random, tech-savvy Joe wants to see a portrait of a celebrity crush done in a certain artist's style. Problem is, there's no way to contact the artist, or they don't know how. Therefore, the likelihood of commissioning something with them is next door to zero. And since, given the choice, they would rather have something for free anyway, they turn to AI. A few prompts later, and they have their portrait.

You have no moral inhibitions it seems?
I have seen porn AI made from celebrities and spread all over the place by low-lifes.
Try to put yourself in their position just for one second.
Its the same problem again: The lower the bar, the more crap.

As for monty, I hope he one day feels comfortable returning to VoD and considers re-joining CF. If not, then I wish him all the best and hope, for his sake, if he hasn't already found one, that he does find a place online that not only prohibits AI but keeps search engines from crawling their content.

The likely output is that he just quits publishing NSFW stuff. Why should he, there is no more incentive. The praise goes to the 1000 times bigger AI flood.

 

[Fantasmo]

To me, the problem is one of quantity. Sure, the fact that some AI bot is churning out 1000 "artworks" every day doesn't stop a real artist from producing one excellent piece every few months. However, it may well make it harder for a viewer to find them. Think of it this way-if I place a pearl in a bowl with 20 rocks from my garden, it's easy to find. On the other hand, if I throw that pearl into a quarry with 50,000 rocks, it will be nearly impossible to find even though it's just as beautiful.

This is exactly the problem for our community here. And for others. Places like e-hentai largely got useless because of that. Its just a collection from realistic looking porn with 3-6 fingered nudies. I needn't even read, i see from the thumbnail that its AI, so why bother.

 

[Fantasmo]

Tree has a sister who retired from a prominent west coast college and I can assure you no AI 'artist' will ever make what she did with her hand-painted art!

I wholeheartedly agree with you... but her stuff will drown in the flood, it does already!

 

[Fantasmo]

Artists like Sam Yang or Greg Rutkowski who have openly spoken out against AI have had to face backlash of AI bros intentionally training checkpoint models and LoRAs just to mess with them. I believe the SamDoesArts models on CivitAI are now at version 3, capable of mimiking Sam's style to the point where nobody can tell the difference between his stuff and the AI generated images.

Isn't that enough to sue those companies?
I am certain it would be. But then how can an individual confront billion dollar companies, they have the money to kill you, regardless of right and wrong.
Maybe its time that those artists team up for a big lawsuit.

 

[poyeezed]

I've been following this thread with interest. I'm on the fence concerning AI, although I do see Monte Crusto's point. Personally Poser and Victoria 4 work for me, and I usually get the results I want, although it is a challenge at times tweaking morphs, etc. However I do enjoy the challenge and I find it helps my creativity. I don't know much about AI other than some people do get very realistic results, while others produce crap. Some artists like Jucundus or Michele Patri, as a small example, have redone some of their older stuff with AI and have gotten excellent results. Personally, I probably won't get into AI because frankly I don't have the time or interest to learn it to get the results I want. Besides look at at a site like Deviant Art. It seems 90% of the stuff posted there is crappy AI.

 

[DavidTX]

Isn't that enough to sue those companies?
I am certain it would be. But then how can an individual confront billion dollar companies, they have the money to kill you, regardless of right and wrong.
Maybe its time that those artists team up for a big lawsuit.

Every AI company I can think of has already been sued multiple times, but there are three major problems:
1) Existing copyright laws were not written with AI in mind and it is often unclear whether AI companies are actually breaking any laws.
2) Court cases take eons. Some like Andersen v. Stability AI/OpenAI/DeviantArt took almost two years just to go into discovery, and likely none of the current court cases will come to a conclusion before 2026.
3) Countries are extremely hesitant to hinder AI in any way, fearing that if they do, other countries with lax or non-existent copyright laws will have an economic advantage. Thus they heavily favor the huge AI corporations. Councils and boards are usually stacked in their favor. The UK for example is on the verge of creating a copyright exception that would let AI companies train their systems on copyrighted material without needing any permission. AIs would actually have more rights than humans, which is just mind-boggling. Their proposal would merely allow copyright holders to "opt-out", which is a solution heavily favored by AI companies because it quite literally does not work. Opt-out falls apart the moment an image is shared anywhere.