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What's in it for you?

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apostate630 said:
tonylong said:
On that note, there's also the aspect of pain. If there's no show of emotion, then it's not very arousing. In this case, it's the typical BDSM thing, where the sadistic sense is to enjoy watching others receive pain without their being able to stop it.

I still think I'm not technically a sadist, which at this point is probably wishful thinking. Because I find that in a crux context I'm turned on by expressions of pain.

Consider the two attachments. Most folks will recognize Makar's Shasha, who looks hot as hell writhing in apparent torment upon that studio cross.

But her face is pretty much blank; she's a model doing a shoot. Mind you, she's doing a hell of a job, but the overall impression is that it's just a job.

Then there's Damian's manip, what I've labeled "Penance." This girl is screaming in amazingly intense torment. She's not only got an audience to gawk at her humilation, but a crushing burden of guilt to expiate.

Guess which one I find more arousing?

Damain's fans will note that this manip is new. It's part of a Makar/Damian/Jedakk collaboration called "Roman Crucifictions," which should be available by the end of the weekend. Sorry, folks, it will NOT be a freebie, but as soon as a URL is available I'll post it here and elsewhere.

I'll take the first one. I don't like manipulated photos. For me, it's not some imagined situation that turns me on... it's the actual moment that happened in the real world... even if it is a model doing a shoot. My imagination can supply all the "agony" I need.
 
apostate630 said:
tonylong said:
On that note, there's also the aspect of pain. If there's no show of emotion, then it's not very arousing. In this case, it's the typical BDSM thing, where the sadistic sense is to enjoy watching others receive pain without their being able to stop it.

I still think I'm not technically a sadist, which at this point is probably wishful thinking. Because I find that in a crux context I'm turned on by expressions of pain.

Consider the two attachments. Most folks will recognize Makar's Shasha, who looks hot as hell writhing in apparent torment upon that studio cross.

But her face is pretty much blank; she's a model doing a shoot. Mind you, she's doing a hell of a job, but the overall impression is that it's just a job.

Then there's Damian's manip, what I've labeled "Penance." This girl is screaming in amazingly intense torment. She's not only got an audience to gawk at her humilation, but a crushing burden of guilt to expiate.

Guess which one I find more arousing?

Damain's fans will note that this manip is new. It's part of a Makar/Damian/Jedakk collaboration called "Roman Crucifictions," which should be available by the end of the weekend. Sorry, folks, it will NOT be a freebie, but as soon as a URL is available I'll post it here and elsewhere.

I'll take the first one. I don't like manipulated photos. For me, it's not some imagined situation that turns me on... it's the actual moment that happened in the real world... even if it is a model doing a shoot. My imagination can supply all the "agony" I need.
 
what's in it ... ?

For me, it's the whole experience of being in a hopless situation. The fact that that the condemned knows his/her fate is inescapable. I like the thought of being publically stripped and whipped and forced to carry the cross to the place of execution. The fact that others are watching the specticle as a form of entertainment, seeing the victim being fixed to the wood and raised. Watching him/her dance on the cross for hours until exhaustion. Knowing that escape is impossible. And, suffering for the pleasure of others. I find the idea of being the cruxee the most exciting. I've been cruxed a few times, years ago and found it to be the most mind blowing experience. Maybe it's the endorphine rush, like someone said, I don't know, but I've never experienced anything else like it. That's why I think a live online crucifixion would be such a rush. It's as close as you can get nowadays. and it's consensual. 8)
 
This is quite a revelation to me as new to this forum.

To answer the original question, ‘What’s in it for you?’ – since I was six or seven I have fantasied about being crucified, religion has no part in this, I am not a Catholic, nor was my family religious in any way, though I think some Jesus biopic I saw at five years old or less must have set this off. At that age I used to pose in the privacy of my bedroom hanging in only my boxer shorts from my bunk bed (an ideal prop!), the pose felt so intense. When I learnt in my early teens that victims were denied even their underwear the whole subject took on extra dimensions. The idea of being so publicly exposed totally naked in front of a crowd of people was both shocking & erotic.

Until now I have never admited these fantasies to anyone as I thought I was completely weird. I particularly enjoyed my ex wife tying me down across a bed, we found it better if my legs were together (thus copying the crucifix shape) because she could ride me better. Though I longed to have her tie me to an upright cross but was too ashamed to admit to the desire.

When alone I still privately crucify myself in an internal courtyard at my house. A full size cross is easy to make & erect. I have also discovered a means of hanging quite safely from my wrists & feet. A sedile of a stout wooden peg between my legs takes most of my weight & prolongs the ability to fantasise, (incidentaly, I never realised till I sat astride a sedile of the effect that would be an extra embarrassment in front of people – something to do with some tendon or muscle between a man’s legs).

Always I felt remarkably silly & freaky after such private enactments. Fortunately 99% of the rest of my time I am completely normal – it just so happens that from time to time I get a terrible sexual urge to do it again. I also am quite happy & fulfilled by normal heterosexual sex during the 99% period, so I don’t think I am suffering from some mental disorder: At least I satisfied myself that such devious thinking was harmless to other folk.

I thought I was alone in these fantasies, but discovering this forum has encouraged me that IÂ’m not so unusual, though I would still never admit any of this to my friends, family or aquaintencies, or even interest in the subject; I suppose I am somewhat ashamed at it all. The anonimity of this forum is marvelous, I feel I have got something off my chest here.

I still dream of meeting crucifixors who would realise my fantasies, but it seems impossible as 1) itÂ’s not the sort of thing you would bring up in a conversation over a beer. 2) I canÂ’t imagine what anyone else would get from it, IÂ’m not a lovely young girl, & IÂ’m not gay.

There seem to be definite categories of people in this forum, by far the majority wanting to see lovely women posing naked on a cross; & I also enjoy viewing female beauty in this way, though I am slightly disappointed at the way they are so posed; their hair is always perfect, they always look clean & scrubbed. I would like to see some dishevelment, hair & body streaked in sweat & dirt. Also the thought of the baying crowd of onlookers is an essential part of it all, but I know thatÂ’s not possible in the photos. A second group are crucifixors who arrange & produce these photos, together with others who would like to do so. The third group are crucifixees who either have been crucified or like me fantasize about it. Lastly I detect a few scholars; if there are any psychiatrists out there, I hope they are having a field-day here!

It would be interesting if others could write an account of their fantasies, or their real life experiences, at some length & detail (cummon! donÂ’t be shy) as either crucifixees or crucifixors. I am will ing to do so, but I think IÂ’ve opened my soul enough for a while.
 
I'd like to note something of particular importance to me here; it seems that this forum contains some of the most intelligent posters I've found on the internet in one place for quite some time. I know that English is not everyone's first language, but you seem to be doing alright all the same. Just a quick kudos to everyone here for taking the time/energy to make posts that actually make sense.

Let's keep LOL, OMG, ROFL, horrible grammar and all the other nonsense out of here for good.
 
PhilX, my apologies for taking so long to note that excellent response. Yours was exactly the kind of post I hoped for when I started this thread.

"There seem to be definite categories of people in this forum, by far the majority wanting to see lovely women posing naked on a cross; & I also enjoy viewing female beauty in this way, though I am slightly disappointed at the way they are so posed; their hair is always perfect, they always look clean & scrubbed. I would like to see some dishevelment, hair & body streaked in sweat & dirt. Also the thought of the baying crowd of onlookers is an essential part of it all, but I know thatÂ’s not possible in the photos. A second group are crucifixors who arrange & produce these photos, together with others who would like to do so. The third group are crucifixees who either have been crucified or like me fantasize about it. Lastly I detect a few scholars; if there are any psychiatrists out there, I hope they are having a field-day here!"

That is as succinct an analysis of the crux scene as I've read anywhere, and I have no doubt shrinks are out there, and not just as observers. As for the 'silly and freaky' feeling after one of your crux sessions, your "99% normal" assessment of yourself seems to apply to 99% of folks with this fetish I've encountered.

What I do find interesting is that most folks date their fascination with crux back to childhood. I had dim and unformed Christian Martyr fantasies as early as fourth grade, but didn't really wake up to my kink until middle age.

For what it's worth, photographers like Makar and WelshWebb are working on the dishevelment, sweat, and dirt issue. Further, you may have already noted my own preference for Roman era realism, featuring sweat and blood and nails and nudity.

More on this later. As I said, I'm sorry it took me so long to respond. I'd given up this thread as essentially moribund.

But it's *not*.

C'mon folks. Chime in.
 
What's In it for me?

The roots of my fascination with crucifixion go back to first grade in Catholic school. Seeing a picture of a martyred female saint hanging on the wall so close to my desk gave me an erection. DidnÂ’t realize what was happening at the time; just knew that whenever I looked at that lady I felt “tinglyÂâ€. Only in later life did I remember the effect the picture had on me. It all came together for me after surfing the web and finding that I was drawn to crux art.

Since then I have spent some time thinking about precisely why depictions of crucified women have had such an effect on me. Could it be that the early childhood experience of seeing my first lady undergoing torment shaped my erotic nature for the rest of my life? (If i had never seen it so young, would I enjoy it today or think it perverse?) Or, is it simply that I would normally be aroused by such images and was just lucky enough to have encountered one in early childhood? Guess IÂ’ll never really know, so I stopped asking that particular question and I donÂ’t find it perverse.

I simply accept that there is, and always has been, that part of me which becomes sexually stimulated by the visual depiction of females (a) on the road to crucifixion (b) being prepared for crucifixion and (c) hanging and suffering on the cross. The complete reason is murky, but I am sure that there is some enjoyment derived from the element of control involved in the process, as well as contrast of the elegant female form forced to helplessly submit to such a brutal process of suffering.

There is also some element of my foot fetish involved as well. When a naked (or semi naked) female is crucified in art, I find the most pleasure in those pictures that show the treatment of her feet (nailed or roped). Nothing is more stimulating for me than seeing the legs and feet work through the pain of the experience, resulting in the “danceÂâ€.

I have no desire to be crucified myself. I derive my satisfaction from seeing the beauty of those lovely ladies who submit (willingly or otherwise) to the cross as a blatant contrast to the deadly and final nature of the brutal form of execution. I am satisfied by their sacrifice. And the experience is highlighted with the further satisfaction of my foot fetish.

Does this resonate with anyone else?
 
What's in it for you?

Since I have a chance to come up for air between Winter Term and Spring Semester, I’d like to respond to the latest posts from both Apostate and Kwarner. To Apostate: Yes, I think most of us can trace the beginning of our obsession/fetish w/ crucifixion back to childhood. In my case, I specifically remember being aroused by crucifixion images as early as age 8 or 9. As with most of us (I imagine), it started w/ the religious images. . .In my case, I could always imagine both women (girls at the time), naked on the cross, and me up there. ..Perhaps the origin of my proclivity for being a switch. . .Who knows. ..My biggest influence was unquestionably Jim Bishop’s fine book, “The Day Christ Died.†Now, some thirty-five years or so later, I can still recite (almost) verbatim the 8 or 9 pages of that book that depict Christ’s crucifixion.

To Kwarner: As I just told Apostate, I think my earliest visual experiences w/ crucifixion have probably fueled my “switch†position.†I know you stated that you “have no desire to be crucified yourself.†Let me offer another perspective. . .As someone who has been fortunate to be able practice r/t erotic crucifixion over the years, I always go back to those early memories. . .Whether it’s the women on the cross, or me up there, it’s always been about getting off. ..What drives me is getting them off (via hand/fingers, tongue, toys, etc.) as they struggle in futility on the cross, or having them do the same to/for me. . .
 
Re: What's in it for you?

Flavius Galarius said:
My biggest influence was unquestionably Jim Bishop’s fine book, “The Day Christ Died.†Now, some thirty-five years or so later, I can still recite (almost) verbatim the 8 or 9 pages of that book that depict Christ’s crucifixion.

Now that's interesting, FG. Jedakk once told me Bishop's book was one of the key inspirations for how he positions his Poser victims on the cross. I'm going to have to get around to reading it.
 
What's in it for you

Apostate--

Yes, you should definitely check it out. It's an important work in a couple of respects. As far as I know, Bishop was the first to suggest in mainstream media (late 1950's, early 1960's--I can't remember exactly) that people who were crucified were nailed through the wrists and not the hands. He was also the first (again, as far as I know) to dispel the myth of the stoic, passive victim of crucifixion. . .meaning that he was the first author that I know of to describe 'the dance" on the cross.

On the negative side, while Bishop suggests that most criminals/rebels were crucified naked, he argues that, in the case of Jews, a loincloth was permitted (thus, giving credence to the tradition of the non-naked Christ on the cross). He also indirectly suggests that it was mostly males that the Romans crucified (though, if memory serves me, there is a footnote that says that when women were crucified, they were affixed to their crossses facing them). My guess is that neither of these assertions is hisstorically accurate.

Give it a look. I'll be interest3ed to hear what you think.
 
Re: What's in it for you

Flavius Galarius said:
As far as I know, Bishop was the first to suggest in mainstream media (late 1950's, early 1960's--I can't remember exactly) that people who were crucified were nailed through the wrists and not the hands. He was also the first (again, as far as I know) to dispel the myth of the stoic, passive victim of crucifixion. . .meaning that he was the first author that I know of to describe 'the dance" on the cross.

There were other mainstream artist who painting Chirst nailed by the wrists (even nude) long before Bishop, though not many.

14 century works show him in a nearly see through strip of cloth about the hips. One of those is a tempera on wood painting by Jean de Beaumezt and has Christ pretty much naked, but the blood flow from the spear wound has run down to cover his shame. A few from that period are even close to those "hanging low" images Apostate enjoys so much.

Jan Van Eyck's 1424 a.d. crucifixon is a amazing crowd scene with, for all intensive purposes, a nude figure of Christ receiving the vinager, while at the same time, the spear in the side.

Skip ahead a few centuries, and Albrecht Altdorfer's 1526 painting shows the son of man in a flowing loin cloth, but flanked by two very naked thieves who almost look as if they could have been two of Makar's models.

Peter Paul Rubens 1612 painting shows a nearly naked Christ nailed by the wrists. His JC is still in that classic "spread and crossed foot" pose, but it's a pretty impressive looking piece of art in general. At least he got the nails right!

German artist Max Klinger failed to place the nails correctly, but his entirely nude Christ raised a number of eyebrows when it was unveiled in 1890. The figure was considered so shocking, that the figure's naughty bits were covered with a cloth during a show at the Glass Palace in Munich, 1893. His painting even includes a sedile!

Lovis Corinth painted a very realistic figure of Christ in the process of being nailed in 1907. He caused a sensation with the gritty physical horror of his depliction, as well as showing Jesus nude.

Although Klinger placed the nails in the wrong place, and his cross is questionable, and Corinth's painting doesn't show his idea of the nail positions, their's are about the closest to the way most of us here think of a crucifixion.

Sorry to say my research hasn't dug up many decent females on the cross from ages past. It's a pity Waterhouse didn't leave St. Eulalia on the cross for his late 19th century masterpiece.

It took a number of centuries before artists started to "get it right" and for a while, the idea was lost when great art was considered splattering pots of paint all over the place. Even so, many main stream artists today stick with the tired old crossed-legged-loin-cloth-wearing-nails-through-the- hands-look that's been done to death.

One of these days I'll paint a Passion of the Christ the way I see it...And most likely get crucified in a different fashion should I ever make it to the main stream!
 
Being new to this forum please let me first congratulate you all. You certainly got a good grip all the way down to the roots on this matter.

Now to the question what is in it for me:

I too can trace my fascination with female crucifixion way back to the days when I was about 10 years old. While I cannot pinpoint it to a special event the beginnings were more or less the same as with most of the others (religious paintings/movies etc.).

The fascnation however gradually grew into somthing more and more complex over the years.

First there is certainly the visual aspect of a naked woman hanging from a cross (with my preferences of nails or ropes changing all the time). Also I prefer the sweating and somewhat dirty body bearing the marks of previous floggings or tortures to the clean bondage type of victim. Also the visual agony on the features of the victim are most important and I am clearly with apostate here.

But beside this obvious aspect of fascination there is also the psycological side that at least to me is resposible for far over 50 % of the kick. It is the mix of (sometimes conflicting) emotions of the victim during the rather prolonged procedure of crucifixion (i.e. pain, loneliness, fear of death, shame, desperation, anger and even lust). Therfor the public (judical/roman) non consensual type of crucifixion carries by far more potential than the consensual bondage type.

It is procedure/law/society actually all the world represented by the crucifiers and the bystanders against the stamina and the spirit of a lone individual. Only in this kind of scenario all the conflicting emotions I mentioned befor can occur and can be seen on the victim at the same time (and for a long time right up to the very end) and interact with the emotions of the crucifiers and the bystanders. It carries further than all other execution scenarios and only in the best of pictures all this can be seen.

In this sense a public crucifixion is at the same time visually compact and emotionally complex and that ist what is in it for me.
 
Have we really run dry on this thread? As one of the participants in this disussion pointed out some of the more intelligent comentators have been present here and I totally agree.
So let me try to put some more wood on the fire. Since about three weeks St-Pierre has an excellent thread running in Files-CW about women crucified together. Lately differences in age, poses and forms of suffering of the two women displayed have been included with incredible results as far as I am concerned.
This brings up the question of personality. For me multiple crucifixions carry even more erotic appeal than individual crucifixions. But this certainly implies that for me the individual victim is not as important as suffering itself in its various forms as long as the victims meet my standards. On the other hand a personal relatonship (or just knowing her/him) to one of the victims could even enhance the appeal.

So do we prefer to be anonymus observers or would we like to be involved a little closer? I am not really decided here. And what would people who like being crucified prefer? Some of them have spoken up here very couragously.
 
My preference is definetly to suffer as victim and to be at the mercy of a crowd of strangers. The victim hang there, completely stripped, before a group of strangers who are there to watch him suffer what must be the most painful and merciless death imaginable. They show no pity and enjoy his suffering. To look down from the cross and see these people assembled to watch you suffer without end ,with no way out and to know they are enjoying it would be the ultimate turn on. From me the turn on of crucifixion is the whole procedure, from trial to torture to scourging to hanging from the cross. It is the inevitability of the cross and the fact that it is state sanctioned. The victim's suffering is the will of the state and there is no escape once the sentence is pronounced. That is why, for me, for any crucifixion scene to be satisfactory the participants would have to agree that once the scene begins the victim will hang from the cross and there is no other way out even if he changes his mind. It is this certainty of outcome and finality that make crucifixion such a rush. This may be over the top for some, but that's OK. Every one has there own preferences and I respect that.
 
lovecraft said:
For me multiple crucifixions carry even more erotic appeal than individual crucifixions..

Here ya' go. Not all that impressive, but you have no idea how hard this was to set up and photograph.

-WelshWebb
 
To onthecross: This is a very specific and detailed fantasy with all the classical features also on the psycological level. Thank you! I suppose this approach is more typical if you identify with the victim as you do. For me being on the other side different scenarios (regarding the way of crucifixion/the setting/the number of victims and whether there is a relationship...) hold different kinds of thrill that may each appeal to me at a time. So I guess I am either less focused or more liberal with my fantasy (or both).
To WelshWebb: A good one - and, right I have no idea how difficult it is to produce this kind of picture. Is it more for technical reasons or more because of the models?
 
lovecraft said:
To WelshWebb: A good one - and, right I have no idea how difficult it is to produce this kind of picture. Is it more for technical reasons or more because of the models?

A little of both, actually.

Originally, I had constructed those crosses with two models in mind, Savannah (the tall blond on the right) and Serina (not shown) and messured both to fit their size.

The idea was we were going to experiment with a cornu, which is why there are two sediles on each stipes. Unfortunately, right as we started to shoot, an excepted thunderstorm struck and we were flooded out with rain!

When we went back to shoot a week later, Serina wasn't feeling very well, so a new model stepped in to take her place and Serina took over as their tormentor. The only problem was the new girl was a head shorter than Serina, which effected my careful messurements, so the cross was too long and painful for her.

We had to switch her cross half way through the shoot and abandoned the cornu idea completely. Niether girl was all that comfortable, so I had to shoot quickly to get as many images done as possible with both of them in frame, then had to let one down while shooting just the other. It was a minor clusterf*ck.

I don't know if I'll be able to pull anything off like this one again!

-WelshWebb
 
Which sound like murphy`s law (what can go wrong will go wrong) or a saying in my country (wenn einmal der Wurm drin ist...). So will you try again?
 

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Details of fantasy

To: Lovecraft
Yes, my fantasy is quite authentic and basically follows the classical road to the cross. But it does have a few twists that are unique. Perhaps I could elabrate if anyone is interested?
 
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