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Worried about ethics? Don't derail the thread, post here instead!

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Well I tend not to feel much of an ethical dilemma because I usually visualise myself as the victim. Now I’m unsure about this theory of the fantasy being the actual reality I crave because everytime I push the limits of my dominant partner I seem to enjoy the heightened pain even more. For example at Dore Alley Master accidentally hit me with a full fledged crack of our signal whip- probably our most dangerous weapon. I mean really fucking hard, causing immediate bleeding.. In that moment we immediately stopped and he provided strict aftercare. It was intense, but because of where we were I was keen to get back into our demonstration a few minutes later. So He soon added another 50 or so lashes of the normal “BDSM” kind…

The next day, I begged Him to whip me that hard again, and He eventually relented, eventually giving me ten of the very finest and hardest whiplashes I’ve ever received.

Each of the hard cracking lashes cut me, and I still have the scars. Now surely if fantasy is my “real” goal then the hundreds of milder lashes I took in public would satisfy my itch? But no, I wanted harsher. And I’ll do it again!

So I think we are different. For me the masochistic kink I have goes deeper than mere roleplay. I still have a logical brain, so I don’t do dangerous stuff, not about to genuinely snuff myself. Nor mutilation. But I’m pretty extreme, I do things many people will baulk at and I think that’s ok. So long as my dominant is comfortable and is enjoying hurting me, I don’t think there’s anything ethically questionable about my seeking greater pain from their hands. If I’m the only “victim” where’s any ethical dilemma? Especially when my pain usually drives a completely erotic and/or subspace response from me? If I’m getting what I actually want (and need) then where’s the actual harm?

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Similarly when I view our type of erotic artwork, so long as I can identify with the victim I tend to derive great pleasure from it. For me, it is identifying as the victim that gives me pleasure. It makes no difference at all if they are depicted as male or female. Or indeed as furry! And in this context snuff is completely fine! Whatever, it’s the idea of suffering that turns me in, if I imagine it’s me suffering in that image or story, I enjoy it immensely.

I dunno if that’s ethical? It’s definitely empathy. Does empathy still count as a virtue if I’m getting off on the suffering of the object of my intense empathy?

Feel free to judge me as harshly as you wish, I’m actually comfortable in my skin. Besides, if you condemn me and tell me as much, I might twist that into my kink programme anyway so your judgement will feed my kink monster! :roflmao:
 
Loinclothslave said:
Well I tend not to feel much of an ethical dilemma because I usually visualise myself as the victim. Now I’m unsure about this theory of the fantasy being the actual reality I crave because everytime I push the limits of my dominant partner I seem to enjoy the heightened pain even more. For example at Dore Alley Master accidentally hit me with a full fledged crack of our signal whip- probably our most dangerous weapon. I mean really fucking hard, causing immediate bleeding.. In that moment we immediately stopped and he provided strict aftercare. It was intense, but because of where we were I was keen to get back into our demonstration a few minutes later. So He soon added another 50 or so lashes of the normal “BDSM” kind…

The next day, I begged Him to whip me that hard again, and He eventually relented, eventually giving me ten of the very finest and hardest whiplashes I’ve ever received.

Each of the hard cracking lashes cut me, and I still have the scars. Now surely if fantasy is my “real” goal then the hundreds of milder lashes I took in public would satisfy my itch? But no, I wanted harsher. And I’ll do it again!

So I think we are different. For me the masochistic kink I have goes deeper than mere roleplay. I still have a logical brain, so I don’t do dangerous stuff, not about to genuinely snuff myself. Nor mutilation. But I’m pretty extreme, I do things many people will baulk at and I think that’s ok. So long as my dominant is comfortable and is enjoying hurting me, I don’t think there’s anything ethically questionable about my seeking greater pain from their hands. If I’m the only “victim” where’s any ethical dilemma? Especially when my pain usually drives a completely erotic and/or subspace response from me? If I’m getting what I actually want (and need) then where’s the actual harm?
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First of all I wanna say I don't judge anyone. I don't want to, and even if I wanted, I'm in no position to judge (so I can't, strictly speaking).

That said, I invite to consider that perhaps one today is okay to be publicly humiliated and hurt and even... scarred.
Still, chances are that tomorrow one would frown at these memories, and look at his or her own scars with disgust and disdain: I hope it is not the case for anyone here, but still, before trying anything irreversible (even a... tattoo! it's a general consideration, not limited to BDSM and stuff!) please consider at least the existence of this possibility of a change of mind in the future, and proceed only if really sure.

That being said, I admire your courage :bdsm-heart:



Loinclothslave said:
Similarly when I view our type of erotic artwork, so long as I can identify with the victim I tend to derive great pleasure from it. For me, it is identifying as the victim that gives me pleasure. It makes no difference at all if they are depicted as male or female. Or indeed as furry! And in this context snuff is completely fine! Whatever, it’s the idea of suffering that turns me in, if I imagine it’s me suffering in that image or story, I enjoy it immensely.
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Kudos to you.
I am not able to be completely gender blind, alas.
I realize female protagonists are often more assertive and determined than my male ones, in the semi-consensual/reluctant gray area.
While my male protagonists behave more like classical victims (less semi-consensual and more non-consensual).

As I wrote elsewhere:
In a way, you could say that my women have some more stereotypical masculine traits, whereas my men have some more stereotypical feminine traits.
That is what I like in them, probably: assertive women and more relaxed, smiling, non-confrontational men.
[...]
In contrast, my executed men [...] seem a bit more... "fragile" than the stereotypical men: more at the mercy of events (for them, alas, so... adverse :sisi1 ) than people who actually embrace and become participants in their own destruction or that try to defy and challenge their own tortures and killers.
Maybe because that's how I feel (better: how I fantasize I would feel in their... predicament). Maybe because I find assertive and confrontational men just plainly rude and uninteresting in real life.
[...]
Probably it's also because I like to frustrate expectations, giving myself and the reader something less stereotypical.
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Loinclothslave said:
I dunno if that’s ethical? It’s definitely empathy. Does empathy still count as a virtue if I’m getting off on the suffering of the object of my intense empathy?
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I would say an heartily "yes", particularly for you that are so keen to pay the price and suffer so much on your own flesh.



Loinclothslave said:
Feel free to judge me as harshly as you wish, I’m actually comfortable in my skin. Besides, if you condemn me and tell me as much, I might twist that into my kink programme anyway so your judgement will feed my kink monster! :roflmao:
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I would like to add to your punishment my dear, but unfortunately I cannot but acquit you on all charges :devil2:
 
Jollyrei said:
I think most of us are naturally attuned to care for our fellow people and not cause harm. That may be partially due to cultural conditioning
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I think cultural conditioning is the key concept. History and current events have shown that if a society deems certain people "enemies" or "inferior" then it seems to be not very difficult to find people who will mistreat them. Everything depicted here in stories and pictures has been done to actual humans (barring some that might require technologies not yet invented). Was there a Roman Anti-Crucifixion movement-a group of people who said, "Even though they may be criminals, this is just plain WRONG? If so, history doesn't record that. With slavery there were Abolitionists, but for much of the time they were a rather small minority.

So, I honestly don't know how I would feel had I been raised in a place and time where such things were normal.
 
windar said:
I think cultural conditioning is the key concept. History and current events have shown that if a society deems certain people "enemies" or "inferior" then it seems to be not very difficult to find people who will mistreat them. Everything depicted here in stories and pictures has been done to actual humans (barring some that might require technologies not yet invented). Was there a Roman Anti-Crucifixion movement-a group of people who said, "Even though they may be criminals, this is just plain WRONG? If so, history doesn't record that. With slavery there were Abolitionists, but for much of the time they were a rather small minority.
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When the hundreds of slaves of Lucius Pedanius Secundus, mostly innocents of any crime, where sentenced to crucifixion, the people of Rome asked for mercy to princeps Nero.
The princeps denied mercy and, alas, they were crucified, but against the will of most citizens.

Lucius Pedanius Secundus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

There's a nice 3D rendering of @DjEtla somewhere depicting the tragic episode.
 
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Zephirantes said:
When the hundreds of slaves of Lucius Pedanius Secundus, mostly innocents of any crime, where sentenced to crucifixion the people of Rome asked for mercy to princeps Nero.
The princeps denied mercy and, alas, they were crucified, but against the will of most citizens.

Lucius Pedanius Secundus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

There's a nice 3D rendering of @DjEtla somewhere depicting the tragic episode.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is from the Roman historian Tacitus in the Annales (book 14, chapters 45):

"No one indeed dared singly to oppose the opinion of Cassius, but clamorous voices rose in reply from all who pitied the number, age, or sex, as well as the undoubted innocence of the great majority. Still, the party which voted for their execution prevailed. But the sentence could not be obeyed in the face of a dense and threatening mob, with stones and firebrands. Then the emperor reprimanded the people by edict, and lined with a force of soldiers the entire route by which the condemned had to be dragged to execution. Cingonius Varro had proposed that even all the freedmen under the same roof should be transported from Italy. This the emperor forbade, as he did not wish an ancient custom, which mercy had not relaxed, to be strained with cruel rigour."

Apparently about 400 slaves were crucified, of all ages and both sexes. Pretty much all of them were innocent of any wrong-doing.
 
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