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Crucified males

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Eulalia said:
Maybe not, but there are plenty of indications - from Ovid to Augustine - that audiences watching spectacles of cruelty and death in the arena were.
I don't see why a Roman (m or f) who watched an attractive criminal being nailed and hauled up, or simply paused to watch one already hanging, shouldn't have been similarly excited.
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I agree. To this day, I always love looking at crucifixions in art, pictures, as many of us do. To see an attractive criminal stretched out, naked on display would have excited a few in the crowd.
 
PhilX said:
So the naked execution of criminals outside the city walls would not have violated conventions as it was outside the urban space, it was a place one went to thus making the nudity not something one going about a daily routine with ones young children would chance encounter.
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PhilX, you make some great points. But it brings to mind the Spartacus rebellion. Six thousand survivors of the revolt captured by the legions of Crassus were crucified along the Appian Way from Rome to Capua. This was done to ensure everyone saw what happens to anyone who challenged Rome’s Authority.

I’m sure that the dignity and modesty of the condemned rebels was the last thing on the mind of Crassus! I would imagine quite the opposite. I would have to think that not one of those Six thousand rebels would have been given a loincloth or allowed to keep any of their garments. I'm sure there were six thousand naked rebels, both men and woman on display for all to see!
 
Tricia said:
PhilX, you make some great points. But it brings to mind the Spartacus rebellion. Six thousand survivors of the revolt captured by the legions of Crassus were crucified along the Appian Way from Rome to Capua. This was done to ensure everyone saw what happens to anyone who challenged Rome’s Authority.

I’m sure that the dignity and modesty of the condemned rebels was the last thing on the mind of Crassus! I would imagine quite the opposite. I would have to think that not one of those Six thousand rebels would have been given a loincloth or allowed to keep any of their garments. I'm sure there were six thousand naked rebels, both men and woman on display for all to see!
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Yes a truly horrifying sight, & intended to be just that as a deterrent.

I imagine those involved in doing the executions made some extra cash selling all those slaves' garments to slave owners along the Appian Way!
 
One day I would like to tackle a big crux scene in a manip, Tyre or Spartacus or something like that. One day.
In my dreams . . .

How easy is it to hold on to dignity in such a situation? Barb and I recently posted a story where the crucified woman won the crowd over to her side by her innate dignity and profound suffering. is this just the realms of fantasy, or could the right sort of person maintain their dignity in the face of such abuse?

On a related note, and nodding to the mention of male vulnerability earlier in the discussion, here's a few pics from Markus, a man helpless in his arousal, helpless in his loss of dignity. One final moment of pleasure, or a hideous humiliation? Or perhaps even both.

isa16.jpg isa17.jpg
 
phlebas said:
One day I would like to tackle a big crux scene in a manip, Tyre or Spartacus or something like that. One day.
In my dreams . . .
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I can't wait!!! I always picture the Spartacus crucifixions. The crucifixions must have went on for weeks. The rebels being stripped and being forced to work along the road to construct their own crosses while they were watching the slaves next to them just crucified, knowing that they would be next.
 
naildance said:
In reality, the pain of crucifixion will so overwhelming, the victim will forget his naked body, stripping was only arousing for the public.
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Considering how slow death by crucifixion was, victims might well have undergone periods of agony that would have overshadowed all thought of nakedness, shame, humiliation, etc. But one way in which this form of execution differed from most others was that victims could still talk to other people, including other victims and onlookers.

In the Gospels, we have Jesus speaking from the cross as well as the two thieves. They seemed to be well aware of their situation, not just screaming and babbling. One thief had the presence of mind to mock Jesus, while the other made the decision to believe that he was the Christ and asked him to remember him when he came into his kingdom.

I don't know of other cases where the words of crucifixion victims were recorded, but I did read somewhere, which I can't find at the moment, that the words of a crucifixion victim were considered to be legal testimony under Roman law. That is to say that the Romans believed that a person nailed to a cross could possibly be clear-minded enough to understand questions and formulate responses.

The point is that if a person is clear-headed enough to talk and make decisions, they're also clear-headed enough to appreciate that they are naked, exposed to public view, and humiliated, and to feel the weight of shame because of that. Those feelings would probably fade somewhat over time, but that would be very subjective, based on the victim's cultural taboos against nudity and resulting strength of their aversion to it, the level of their acceptance of their nudity as their current "normal" state, and the amount by which their steadily increasing fatigue, agony, and struggle to breathe overwhelmed their faculties.
 
naildance said:
In reality, the pain of crucifixion will so overwhelming, the victim will forget his naked body, stripping was only arousing for the public.
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I'm sure that's true to a certain extent, but the stripping prior to the flogging and the walk with the cross after, had to be extremely humiliating and seem like hours to the condemned.

We also have to keep in mind that crucifixion was carried out in many different ways. The condemned was sometimes tied and not nailed to the cross and had a sedile. That could result in days or weeks of suffering, plenty of time for the condemned to be viewed by friends, neighbors and family or anyone else who desired.
 
tumblr_o3l3ed4Ksw1ul1ff4o1_540.jpg tumblr_ny1sy2hLsf1ul1ff4o1_540.jpg from crux slave on tumblr...homemade cruxphotos beautiful body and he has the urge to do it...what I can understand..
 

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Tricia said:
I'm sure that's true to a certain extent, but the stripping prior to the flogging and the walk with the cross after, had to be extremely humiliating and seem like hours to the condemned.

We also have to keep in mind that crucifixion was carried out in many different ways. The condemned was sometimes tied and not nailed to the cross and had a sedile. That could result in days or weeks of suffering, plenty of time for the condemned to be viewed by friends, neighbors and family or anyone else who desired.
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I'm not so sure about the tying part. I've never seen any references by sources from Roman times that mentioned anything other than nailing. Plautus, in his play "The Mostellaire" mentions that four nails were used in a crucifixion. I'd be curious to see if anyone knows of an actual reference to anyone being tied to a cross by the Romans.

Jim Bishop, in his book "The Day Christ Died," my introduction to crucifixion back in the early 1960s, claimed that the Romans originally tied the wrists and nailed the feet, but he didn't seem to have any references at all for a lot of the stuff he wrote in that book, as I later learned. Unfortunately, a lot of what we see or were taught about crucifixion comes from religious art painted by artists who had little more to go by than imagination.

Sediles, yes, those are mentioned by some sources, as is the horn-like seat we refer to as the "cornu." These may have been optional but apparently they were commonly seen. And yes, crucifixions were carried out in many ways, according to Seneca, Josephus, etc.
 
jedakk said:
I'm not so sure about the tying part. I've never seen any references by sources from Roman times that mentioned anything other than nailing. Plautus, in his play "The Mostellaire" mentions that four nails were used in a crucifixion. I'd be curious to see if anyone knows of an actual reference to anyone being tied to a cross by the Romans.

Jim Bishop, in his book "The Day Christ Died," my introduction to crucifixion back in the early 1960s, claimed that the Romans originally tied the wrists and nailed the feet, but he didn't seem to have any references at all for a lot of the stuff he wrote in that book, as I later learned. Unfortunately, a lot of what we see or were taught about crucifixion comes from religious art painted by artists who had little more to go by than imagination.

Sediles, yes, those are mentioned by some sources, as is the horn-like seat we refer to as the "cornu." These may have been optional but apparently they were commonly seen. And yes, crucifixions were carried out in many ways, according to Seneca, Josephus, etc.
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Jedakk, I have to check my facts. I don't remember the online source. I'll try to find it. I'm sure that I read that the condemned were sometimes tied to the cross which usually prolonged death longer than if they were nailed.

The same source also went into detail about the floggings prior to crucifixion. Brutal floggings would hasten death on the cross. The writer's argument was that sometimes a brutal flogging was more merciful because the condemned would die sooner on the cross and suffer less in the long run. I can't remember the source. I also know that you can't believe everything you read.

I also read that crucifixion was sometimes used as a punishment for slaves, where slaves were stripped and flogged and tied to a cross by their masters. They would be taken down before they died. I don't remember the source on that either.

Either way, the topic and as you state, what we learn from "the imagination of the artists" is very erotic!
 
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