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Crucified males

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jedakk said:
I'm not so sure about the tying part. I've never seen any references by sources from Roman times that mentioned anything other than nailing. Plautus, in his play "The Mostellaire" mentions that four nails were used in a crucifixion. I'd be curious to see if anyone knows of an actual reference to anyone being tied to a cross by the Romans.

Jim Bishop, in his book "The Day Christ Died," my introduction to crucifixion back in the early 1960s, claimed that the Romans originally tied the wrists and nailed the feet, but he didn't seem to have any references at all for a lot of the stuff he wrote in that book, as I later learned. Unfortunately, a lot of what we see or were taught about crucifixion comes from religious art painted by artists who had little more to go by than imagination.

Sediles, yes, those are mentioned by some sources, as is the horn-like seat we refer to as the "cornu." These may have been optional but apparently they were commonly seen. And yes, crucifixions were carried out in many ways, according to Seneca, Josephus, etc.
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I imagine ,
jedakk said:
I'm not so sure about the tying part. I've never seen any references by sources from Roman times that mentioned anything other than nailing. Plautus, in his play "The Mostellaire" mentions that four nails were used in a crucifixion. I'd be curious to see if anyone knows of an actual reference to anyone being tied to a cross by the Romans.

Jim Bishop, in his book "The Day Christ Died," my introduction to crucifixion back in the early 1960s, claimed that the Romans originally tied the wrists and nailed the feet, but he didn't seem to have any references at all for a lot of the stuff he wrote in that book, as I later learned. Unfortunately, a lot of what we see or were taught about crucifixion comes from religious art painted by artists who had little more to go by than imagination.

Sediles, yes, those are mentioned by some sources, as is the horn-like seat we refer to as the "cornu." These may have been optional but apparently they were commonly seen. And yes, crucifixions were carried out in many ways, according to Seneca, Josephus, etc.
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I imagine, Jedakk, it would have been conceivable that, depending on the weight of the victim, rope or strapping, in addition to nails or spikes, could have been utilized to help secure the arms and prevent the torso from pulling the arms out of their sockets. If the victim was in relatively good health, the sedile would also assist in that purpose, the cornu providing addition discomfort, as well as, support. Thank you for your reference to the play by Plautus, something I have not run across in my research, that I will now check out.
 
Felonius said:
I imagine ,


I imagine, Jedakk, it would have been conceivable that, depending on the weight of the victim, rope or strapping, in addition to nails or spikes, could have been utilized to help secure the arms and prevent the torso from pulling the arms out of their sockets. If the victim was in relatively good health, the sedile would also assist in that purpose, the cornu providing addition discomfort, as well as, support. Thank you for your reference to the play by Plautus, something I have not run across in my research, that I will now check out.
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Plautus' play also mentions a crucifixion victim "double-nailed" which could be interpreted several ways, I think, either as a possibility that the audience would view as over-the-top cruelty, or something so ridiculous that he'd get a good laugh out of them. If that was an actual practice, that might have been what some executioners did if they thought a victim needed some additional securing. Or they might have added ropes to help hold the wrists. About all we can do is speculate about that.

The best way to avoid pulling the arms out of their sockets, though, would have been to avoid stretching them out too far on the patibulum. The further outstretched they are, the greater the tension in them and the more force applied, both to the shoulder joints and to the nails in the wrists. For example, if the arms are placed at 45 degrees to the vertical and the victim is hanging quietly, then the force in each arm would be a bit less than half of her weight divided by the cosine of 45 degrees, which comes out to about 70% of the victim's weight. I say "about" because when hanging, part of the weight of her legs is going to be supported by the nails in her feet.

Using the same formula, at 60 degrees, each arm would carry the victim's FULL weight, at 75 degrees, almost TWICE her weight in each arm. Somewhere in there you're going to pull the weaker of the victim's two arms out of joint or tear the nail out of one of her hands.

This is why, in all of my artwork, you see my victims nailed to the cross with their arms outstretched at 30 degrees from the vertical. At that angle, each arm would carry about 58% of the victim's weight. It also happens that this is really easy for my executioner to measure when he's nailing her wrists - all he has to do is place them about elbow width out from her shoulders, and when she's hanging her arms will be at about thirty degrees from the vertical.

For example, in this picture the executioner has positioned her wrist for nailing:

405706-9f538bfbfb64ccdae9000fb15b80ff53.jpg


And in this picture you can see how close to elbow-width apart her wrists are nailed:

405708-23e00127ee35b634ecc25328ebe91e63.jpg


And in this picture, you can see the angle of her arms when she's hanging by her wrists:

405709-2bd9bc84e5c4c3dd264356adf9d50991.jpg


Another motive I have for positioning her wrists that way is that it tends to maximize her ability to move in interesting ways as she struggles. The further outstretched her arms are, the more restricted her movements will be. But the bottom line is that geometry and physics has a lot to do with the amount of stress on a victim's arms and whether there is danger of pulling them out of socket, etc.
 

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jedakk said:
Plautus' play also mentions a crucifixion victim "double-nailed" which could be interpreted several ways, I think, either as a possibility that the audience would view as over-the-top cruelty, or something so ridiculous that he'd get a good laugh out of them. If that was an actual practice, that might have been what some executioners did if they thought a victim needed some additional securing. Or they might have added ropes to help hold the wrists. About all we can do is speculate about that.

The best way to avoid pulling the arms out of their sockets, though, would have been to avoid stretching them out too far on the patibulum. The further outstretched they are, the greater the tension in them and the more force applied, both to the shoulder joints and to the nails in the wrists. For example, if the arms are placed at 45 degrees to the vertical and the victim is hanging quietly, then the force in each arm would be a bit less than half of her weight divided by the cosine of 45 degrees, which comes out to about 70% of the victim's weight. I say "about" because when hanging, part of the weight of her legs is going to be supported by the nails in her feet.

Using the same formula, at 60 degrees, each arm would carry the victim's FULL weight, at 75 degrees, almost TWICE her weight in each arm. Somewhere in there you're going to pull the weaker of the victim's two arms out of joint or tear the nail out of one of her hands.

This is why, in all of my artwork, you see my victims nailed to the cross with their arms outstretched at 30 degrees from the vertical. At that angle, each arm would carry about 58% of the victim's weight. It also happens that this is really easy for my executioner to measure when he's nailing her wrists - all he has to do is place them about elbow width out from her shoulders, and when she's hanging her arms will be at about thirty degrees from the vertical.

For example, in this picture the executioner has positioned her wrist for nailing:

405706-9f538bfbfb64ccdae9000fb15b80ff53.jpg


And in this picture you can see how close to elbow-width apart her wrists are nailed:

405708-23e00127ee35b634ecc25328ebe91e63.jpg


And in this picture, you can see the angle of her arms when she's hanging by her wrists:

405709-2bd9bc84e5c4c3dd264356adf9d50991.jpg


Another motive I have for positioning her wrists that way is that it tends to maximize her ability to move in interesting ways as she struggles. The further outstretched her arms are, the more restricted her movements will be. But the bottom line is that geometry and physics has a lot to do with the amount of stress on a victim's arms and whether there is danger of pulling them out of socket, etc.
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And where is the pleasure in that? I simply cant imagine an Roman executioner calculating the angle of the arm when he crucified a condamned.
 
Well, if they'd had a craftsman like Jedakk on the job, they'd have done much better crucifixions,
but probably most of the time they botched it :rolleyes:
 
Balti said:
And where is the pleasure in that? I simply cant imagine an Roman executioner calculating the angle of the arm when he crucified a condamned.
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What calculation? All I said was nail the wrists about elbow width apart - no calculation at all. The measuring device is the victim's body itself.

They would have learned what happened when you stretched the arms out along the crossbar pretty quickly and said "Oh shit, well that didn't work very well!" Next time, that executioner would know better. And they apparently had lots of opportunities to learn through experience what worked and what didn't. Lots of executioners probably did botch it up. Some learned and some didn't. A "good" carnifex, one who could make a victim suffer for days and pay for his or her crimes would have had to.

They didn't need trigonometry, geometry, physics, at all, I just used that to explain precisely what happens. Yes, I figured this out through physics and calculation, but I didn't have subjects to experiment on - nor did I need any. And I can physically verify what I'm saying every day when I go to the gym and grab a chin-up bar. Spread your hands out wide on the bar and it's a lot harder to do a pull-up.
 
jedakk said:
What calculation? All I said was nail the wrists about elbow width apart - no calculation at all. The measuring device is the victim's body itself.

They would have learned what happened when you stretched the arms out along the crossbar pretty quickly and said "Oh shit, well that didn't work very well!" Next time, that executioner would know better. And they apparently had lots of opportunities to learn through experience what worked and what didn't. Lots of executioners probably did botch it up. Some learned and some didn't. A "good" carnifex, one who could make a victim suffer for days and pay for his or her crimes would have had to.

They didn't need trigonometry, geometry, physics, at all, I just used that to explain precisely what happens. Yes, I figured this out through physics and calculation, but I didn't have subjects to experiment on - nor did I need any. And I can physically verify what I'm saying every day when I go to the gym and grab a chin-up bar. Spread your hands out wide on the bar and it's a lot harder to do a pull-up.
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I remember watching the HBO "Rome" series several years ago and Julius Caesar had the main character crucify several witnesses to a theft and he suggested the character to use his "torture regiment" for the task. I wonder if there was any accuracy to that scene. BTW, horrible crux scene. Fully clothed guys with no floggings or carrying of crossbeams. If they were a torture regiment, they failed miserably.
 
Licinius said:
I remember watching the HBO "Rome" series several years ago and Julius Caesar had the main character crucify several witnesses to a theft and he suggested the character to use his "torture regiment" for the task. I wonder if there was any accuracy to that scene. BTW, horrible crux scene. Fully clothed guys with no floggings or carrying of crossbeams. If they were a torture regiment, they failed miserably.
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I've never seen any reference to units within the Roman Army that would specialize in torture or executions. There may have been soldiers noted for their cruelty & brutality, but, that pretty much describes the whole army. There doesn't seem to have been anything like the anti-partisan units of the Waffen SS.
 
Naraku said:
I've never seen any reference to units within the Roman Army that would specialize in torture or executions. There may have been soldiers noted for their cruelty & brutality, but, that pretty much describes the whole army. There doesn't seem to have been anything like the anti-partisan units of the Waffen SS.
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I agree! Logically, if you were a centurion or higher in the Roman army, you'd probably know certain of your soldiers who would be your go-to guys when you needed a prisoner interrogated. They'd be the ones who weren't necessarily wildly sadistic, but wouldn't hesitate to apply whatever torture might be required to extract information.

Similarly, you might have guys who were experienced at crucifixion who you'd assign to oversee that work.

I've read supposedly authoritative accounts that mentioned how a crucifixion crew was organized without having any basis in fact whatever for it. There MAY have been such units in the Roman army; they were very organized in most other ways. We just don't have any historical accounts that I'm aware of that describe this.
 
I imagine it went like this:
Centurion Publius has to crucify someone. He knows that Primus Pilus Marcus has done this sort of thing before so he assigns him to take charge and pick a team. He knows that Varus is a good carpenter, so he's assigned to make the cross. Gaius and Titus are both big, strong men and Titus is good with a whip. So, Varus builds the cross. Titus does the flogging. Gaius and Titus hold the prisoner while Marcus nails his arms. Titus and Gaius lift the pitabulum on to the stipes with Varus' help to put it in place. Then, Marcus nails the feet and they all go off to lunch
Next time, Publius may assign the job to Varus, Gaius or Titus, since they now have experience.
 
Naraku said:
I imagine it went like this:
Centurion Publius has to crucify someone. He knows that Primus Pilus Marcus has done this sort of thing before so he assigns him to take charge and pick a team. He knows that Varus is a good carpenter, so he's assigned to make the cross. Gaius and Titus are both big, strong men and Titus is good with a whip. So, Varus builds the cross. Titus does the flogging. Gaius and Titus hold the prisoner while Marcus nails his arms. Titus and Gaius lift the pitabulum on to the stipes with Varus' help to put it in place. Then, Marcus nails the feet and they all go off to lunch
Next time, Publius may assign the job to Varus, Gaius or Titus, since they now have experience.
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Right, it's all about personnel development, gives cross-training a new meaning! :devil:

Reminds me of part of a story I've been writing - here are a couple of trained executioner's helpers:

I could feel the end of the sedile poking me in the crack of my ass while the two men roped my ankles together.

“Please… please hurry!” I said. “Can’t… breathe!”

They both laughed at that. One of them looked at me and said, “You want us to hurry? You know what we’re going to do when we finish tying your ankles together, little girl?”

I stared at him for a moment, then nodded, had to force the air out to speak a word or two at a time. “You’ll… nail… my feet… to the… cross!”

“She ain’t as dumb as she looks! And believe me, I’m in more of a hurry to see your feet nailed to the cross than you’ll soon be!” The one with the rope said. “I’m ready to get to the tavern, get my lunch and a cup or two of wine. Crucifying you assholes is thirsty work! Then I’m going to go plant my pole between Myrtis’s legs and make her moan too!

“Whereas I don’t give a shit,” the one holding my legs said, “because I have to sit here with you and these other crowbait bastards we’ve hung up today, water you and keep you safe from any of this rabble that might do something stupid, try to ease you out of this world before you’ve had time to pay Caesar for your crimes!”

“Nailing or guarding, it all pays the same! Get her feet up on the stipes there so I can tie them off,” the one with the rope said.​
 
It would be something else to see a full crucifixion as for modern times of a thief, and being carried out in a city centre. A thief like this. Would be something else to watch along with 1000s of others enjoying his crucifixion processThief+about+to+be+nailed+up.jpeg pUezt3nQK3uYUl7ukeXGK_5HKUkaugCYPoMQfzqejIg-1.jpeg Nailed.jpeg
 

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Balti said:
who is a better director of this movie? :p the kid is awesome but the movie sucks big time.... in my opinion...i saw them alll.. and there are some more exciting ... if the Director would be one of us the kid would have an erection from the top to the end... the screaming is not everything about a crucifixion... the excitement is :p
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Balti,

It's not a movie. The clips are from Dreamboybondage.com which is a gay bdsm site run by Ken Darling (the director) and the boy on the cross is Colby. It's a good site and I've been a member for a long time due to the many crucifixion scenes available.

Interestingly, I've never seen a spontaneous, full erection on any of these boys and they are all young and fit. Some of them have been masturbated to full mast and even forced to cum, but I've never seen it happen on its own.

I know some guys on this site have been crucified and have had spontaneous erections as a result. Wayne is one of them and the pictures he provided are quite nice indeed!

I do wonder if anyone has ever climaxed while on the cross without outside physical stimulation (i.e. a hand job). Would be interested to read any such stories if so.
 
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