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DeviantArt is different....

Go to CruxDreams.com
Well, that's just the point.

You can go to Pixiv, but officially showing genitals there is not allowed. Up to now nobody seems to care, but you never feel save. Also you never, ever receive any feedback there.

ArtUntamed was founded by (3D) artists who were pissed off by DA. They started out with a lot of sympathy. But, without paying, you could only post 2 pics a day and they had to be downsized, also there was a very limited number of 'galleries' possible, not enough for all of my different stories. Also there are some stories about banning: Emarukk posted a crux picture there, which got deleted, while other people are allowed to show someone getting his head clubbered but it was ok because it said 'Oh, he's still breathing.'

There are some other, mainly Asian, site, but they are just freak shows with colourfull pictures of monster balloon tits and splashing floods of cum.

All this was the reason, why I started (thanks to Migoz for making me aware of the place and to the admins for the warm welcome), why I came here. Still, I don't want to flood this forum with a lot of stuff that is not crux related, so I don't post all my content and I downsize the pictures. And, as pleasant as the community here is, it is a rather small bubble.
On DA my story pictures (even the self-censored ones) still get over 1000 views within a couple of weeks and I still get new watchers, so there is interest in my stuff and I have no idea, where else I could reach such people.
And what do I like to add to the DA ?! Everything I enjoy is taken as explicit and inappropriate content threatened by Ban, and I'm really tired of doing boring bdsm art, I can already play kink.com porn ... And I still have to pay a subscription to make me art someone saw?! And it's not even a guarantee of safety from the ban ... No thanks .. There is definitely a substitute for pixiev and DA, and when I find it, I'll use it.
 
All seem to agree that CF is a precious jewel shining in a pile of dirt.. and we must take care of it, if we don’t want to lose it. I hope everyone who reads this, is giving something towards the running costs of CF. Sure, it’s small, but it’s warm, like a little camp fire where we gather to swap stories.

I’ve put my work on BDSMLR and FetLife, I don’t know that I would recommend anyone else to do the same, they have their drawbacks, though I’ve had some good feedback on both sites. Neither one has cost me anything, so that’s a win, I suppose!

I want to wish all our artists and writers the best; keep being creative, it really matters. Otherwise the world is a dark and lifeless place. :)
 
Well, that's just the point.

You can go to Pixiv, but officially showing genitals there is not allowed. Up to now nobody seems to care, but you never feel save. Also you never, ever receive any feedback there.

ArtUntamed was founded by (3D) artists who were pissed off by DA. They started out with a lot of sympathy. But, without paying, you could only post 2 pics a day and they had to be downsized, also there was a very limited number of 'galleries' possible, not enough for all of my different stories. Also there are some stories about banning: Emarukk posted a crux picture there, which got deleted, while other people are allowed to show someone getting his head clubbered but it was ok because it said 'Oh, he's still breathing.'

There are some other, mainly Asian, site, but they are just freak shows with colourfull pictures of monster balloon tits and splashing floods of cum.

All this was the reason, why I started (thanks to Migoz for making me aware of the place and to the admins for the warm welcome), why I came here. Still, I don't want to flood this forum with a lot of stuff that is not crux related, so I don't post all my content and I downsize the pictures. And, as pleasant as the community here is, it is a rather small bubble.
On DA my story pictures (even the self-censored ones) still get over 1000 views within a couple of weeks and I still get new watchers, so there is interest in my stuff and I have no idea, where else I could reach such people.
DA is still the best place for me to post my writing although I have only a small following. I sink without trace on Artuntamed and I don't write crux so I'm not going to make much of an impact here either. I get lots of offers to role play on DA and usually we switch to Discord because DA's chat thing is dreadful.

I want to say however, that the joy in Cruxforums is the humour and the sense of fun of the perverts who inhabit it. They're erudite, sensible and cultured. I have as much fun swapping messages on here as I do pretending I'm a worthy story teller anywhere else.
 
End of the road for CF? Today ImageMaker said...
"Unfortunately, the final goal of collecting donations has not yet been reached.
And the month has already begun and the hoster requires payment.
In the wallet now only 70% of the required amount…"
Happily there is better news this evening. :)
 
All seem to agree that CF is a precious jewel shining in a pile of dirt.. and we must take care of it, if we don’t want to lose it. I hope everyone who reads this, is giving something towards the running costs of CF. Sure, it’s small, but it’s warm, like a little camp fire where we gather to swap stories.

I’ve put my work on BDSMLR and FetLife, I don’t know that I would recommend anyone else to do the same, they have their drawbacks, though I’ve had some good feedback on both sites. Neither one has cost me anything, so that’s a win, I suppose!

I want to wish all our artists and writers the best; keep being creative, it really matters. Otherwise the world is a dark and lifeless place. :)

BDSMlr has permanently serious technical problems. It seems that after having been bought, it's still a one-man operation, and that he has his hands more than full. More than half of what I've posted there are now broken links. Sometimes you can't post. Sometimes you can't see what others have posted. I suspect that it might close shop at any moment. Finally, it's highly centered on photography (and for BDSM photographic content, it's excellent, but there's hardly any photographer there : it's all "found on the internet" content).

Of course, it doesn't cost anything...except time. I'll probably keep posting there (although I haven't done so in 5 months or so), but I wouldn't really recommend it. Mostly I joined it for the photos, and since I was already there ... But if other venues are an option and you don't intend to browse through BDSM photos...You should probably go elsewhere.
 
That's because they're now being run by a pathetic tribe of greedy corporatists - they can't understand anything that doesn't have a bunch of $$$ attached :(

Fucking losers :mad:

If you intend to offer your work for free and they then decide to charge for access, then you should remove all your content from there and place it somewhere else. The bottom line is this; If they are charging access fees, then the contributing artists must be finacially rewarded for providing their content.

They aren't exactly charging an access fee. You're charging one, and they take their cut.

Besides, you can't be surprised that a company is trying to make money. And I strongly suspect that they're making very little money because apart from the giant ones (facebook, twitter...) , social medias don't seem to, even when they have millions of members.

And for the record, I'm not saying that because I'm a great supporter of DA. I've been banned there.
 
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I am sure most of us have been banned from dA at some point; I certainly have. To be honest, I am not too bothered about getting more violent stuff taken down as the sex images. The former replicates things that are not nice in real life, the latter something that is nice in real life (usually). This is not some woke movement (this is a meaningless term anyway- just a dogwhistle in the US and some far right groups in Europe who think "be equally nice to everyone" is not acceptable; I regard being referred to as woke as a complement), more the puritanical pseudochristianity of the US (as an atheist I am sure I run my life far closer to the things Jesus is alleged to have said than many so called Christians) who have something against sex. The more 'woke' countries in Europe have a very open attitude to sex and far less to violence. Any country where it is easier to buy an assault rifle than a dildo has something wrong in its psyche.

I totally disagree. A lot of these sympathetic wokes who only want to be nice with everybody are after porn, and even more so after BDSM and related kinks in the name of protecting women from oppression. A couple weeks ago, I've been called a nazi (pretty much everybody disagreeing with them is a nazi or a fascist, or at the very least far right) who abuses women victim of trauma because I'm into BDSM.

They're the ones doing the cancelling, in other words actively trying to silence people who disagree with them, and who think that freedom of expression is overrated, despite how much it has historically costed to the real left to preserve it. They're the ones who were the driving force, allied precisely with the conservatives and Christians, to end legal prostitution where I live, because these women must be saved from themselves (same as with BDSM). I've seen them ganging up to have pages or even websites deleted because the kinks presented were sexist in their opinion. They're for a good part the reason why content "that could be perceived as non consensual" is forbidden on many websites. Christians have lost most of their influence. It's the wokes, not the conservative Christians, who are making us slide towards neo-victorianism when it comes to sex and the peculiar expressions of it that most people here have. They're a large part of the moral crusaders who have an issue with what people write, what people draw, what people watch, what people read, what people do in the privacy of their bedroom, and spend their time actively looking for stuff to report for deletion.

And besides this movement was born in the USA, and people in Europe just copy and paste whatever concept they just came up with. It's not by random happenstance that so many of them are anti-sex : they are because as leftist as they might pretend to be, the originators of this movement were culturally deeply influenced by American traditional prudery. They just found a different set of pretexts to justify imposing their prudery on everybody else.
 
I totally disagree. A lot of these sympathetic wokes who only want to be nice with everybody are after porn, and even more so after BDSM and related kinks in the name of protecting women from oppression. A couple weeks ago, I've been called a nazi (pretty much everybody disagreeing with them is a nazi or a fascist, or at the very least far right) who abuses women victim of trauma because I'm into BDSM.

They're the ones doing the cancelling, in other words actively trying to silence people who disagree with them, and who think that freedom of expression is overrated, despite how much it has historically costed to the real left to preserve it. They're the ones who were the driving force, allied precisely with the conservatives and Christians, to end legal prostitution where I live, because these women must be saved from themselves (same as with BDSM). I've seen them ganging up to have pages or even websites deleted because the kinks presented were sexist in their opinion. They're for a good part the reason why content "that could be perceived as non consensual" is forbidden on many websites. Christians have lost most of their influence. It's the wokes, not the conservative Christians, who are making us slide towards neo-victorianism when it comes to sex and the peculiar expressions of it that most people here have. They're a large part of the moral crusaders who have an issue with what people write, what people draw, what people watch, what people read, what people do in the privacy of their bedroom, and spend their time actively looking for stuff to report for deletion.

And besides this movement was born in the USA, and people in Europe just copy and paste whatever concept they just came up with. It's not by random happenstance that so many of them are anti-sex : they are because as leftist as they might pretend to be, the originators of this movement were culturally deeply influenced by American traditional prudery. They just found a different set of pretexts to justify imposing their prudery on everybody else.
Agree 100% on all points
 
I'm not sure that 'left' and 'right' are useful labels in this discussion. They often seem mirror images of each other. The axis is rather libertarian (in the genuine sense, not so-called 'Libertarians' who are anything but) versus authoritarian. On both 'left' and 'right', there's an obsession with controlling what other people do, say and even think.

In Britain - and, I think, in Lutheran northern Europe - Liberal and Labour movements were very much rooted in religious dissent, non-conformist Christianity (Methodism much more than Marxism) There's always been a tension between libertarian and puritan authoritarianism (e.g. a century ago it wasn't porn that was seen as the problem, it was drink), but on the whole - unlike in USA, or even in Northern Ireland - those non-conformist churches remain more 'left', even 'woke', in their political positions.
 
I'm not sure that 'left' and 'right' are useful labels in this discussion. They often seem mirror images of each other. The axis is rather libertarian (in the genuine sense, not so-called 'Libertarians' who are anything but) versus authoritarian. On both 'left' and 'right', there's an obsession with controlling what other people do, say and even think.

In Britain - and, I think, in Lutheran northern Europe - Liberal and Labour movements were very much rooted in religious dissent, non-conformist Christianity (Methodism much more than Marxism) There's always been a tension between libertarian and puritan authoritarianism (e.g. a century ago it wasn't porn that was seen as the problem, it was drink), but on the whole - unlike in USA, or even in Northern Ireland - those non-conformist churches remain more 'left', even 'woke', in their political positions.
You are right, the majority of radicals in the North and Midlands in England had their positions based in Methodism. particularly in Primitive Methodism which attached almost as much importance to social problems as to religious ones. This probably accounts for the failure of the Islington Marxists to make any impact other than possibly in the metropolitan areas.
 
For all the complaining that certain people do, I'm old enough to remember when "Lady Chatterly's Lover" and "Fanny Hill" were still controversial and banned in some places. Anything beyond Playboy, you had to go some rather disreputable store in a questionable neighborhood. Now you can explore every kink in exquisite detail from the comfort of your own home. So, whatever you might say we are orders of magnitude freer than even 30 or 40 years ago and I don't expect that to change in any significant fashion.

If you want to worry about censorship, worry about people facing 15 years in prison for calling the bombing of a maternity hospital a "war", rather than a "special military operation".
 
I'm not sure that 'left' and 'right' are useful labels in this discussion. They often seem mirror images of each other. The axis is rather libertarian (in the genuine sense, not so-called 'Libertarians' who are anything but) versus authoritarian. On both 'left' and 'right', there's an obsession with controlling what other people do, say and even think.

In Britain - and, I think, in Lutheran northern Europe - Liberal and Labour movements were very much rooted in religious dissent, non-conformist Christianity (Methodism much more than Marxism) There's always been a tension between libertarian and puritan authoritarianism (e.g. a century ago it wasn't porn that was seen as the problem, it was drink), but on the whole - unlike in USA, or even in Northern Ireland - those non-conformist churches remain more 'left', even 'woke', in their political positions.
Words of wisdom!
It's not about 'left' or 'right' or any other labels.
It's just about sad wankers, trying to forbid other people the fun they themselves don't dare to have.
 
For all the complaining that certain people do, I'm old enough to remember when "Lady Chatterly's Lover" and "Fanny Hill" were still controversial and banned in some places. Anything beyond Playboy, you had to go some rather disreputable store in a questionable neighborhood. Now you can explore every kink in exquisite detail from the comfort of your own home. So, whatever you might say we are orders of magnitude freer than even 30 or 40 years ago and I don't expect that to change in any significant fashion.

If you want to worry about censorship, worry about people facing 15 years in prison for calling the bombing of a maternity hospital a "war", rather than a "special military operation".
I agree that there are more pressing issues right at the moment.
But I don't think that one of them should be used to silence the concern about others.
I can (and do) actively help refugees, and at the same time, be concerned about climate change, gender pay gap and, amongst others, neo-puritanism.
There is no conflict at all, in fact many of them are interconnected in many ways.

Yes, Internet helped a great deal. No more sneaking into seedy porn shops (but that was another kind of fun, as well). And even stupid Hollywood movies helped to bring BDSM and kinky stuff right into mainstream.
But because things are better now, there is no reason at all to let them take away all this.
20 years ago there was no cure for HIV. Now thanks to research and development many people can live with it. Should this research be cancelled, production of medicaments stopped, just because there is Covid now?

Freedom, just like Democracy, is not a fixed state, but a process. And you constantly have to fight for it on many different battlegrounds.
 
I'm not sure that 'left' and 'right' are useful labels in this discussion. They often seem mirror images of each other. The axis is rather libertarian (in the genuine sense, not so-called 'Libertarians' who are anything but) versus authoritarian. On both 'left' and 'right', there's an obsession with controlling what other people do, say and even think.

In Britain - and, I think, in Lutheran northern Europe - Liberal and Labour movements were very much rooted in religious dissent, non-conformist Christianity (Methodism much more than Marxism) There's always been a tension between libertarian and puritan authoritarianism (e.g. a century ago it wasn't porn that was seen as the problem, it was drink), but on the whole - unlike in USA, or even in Northern Ireland - those non-conformist churches remain more 'left', even 'woke', in their political positions.
I think what looks like religious dissent from this point in time is confused by how Luther's doctrine was used politically be those who's self interest took advantage of it.

In the old way, economies were agricultural, wealth was land and the Catholic church owned most of it, either directly or through allegiance. Catholics were frightened witless by believing that their only salvation would be through submission, not to God, but to the Catholic faith as the sole and exclusive agent of God. How godless is that? The Church was merciless in its oppression of dissent.

However technological progress created other ways of making money such as manufacturing and trade on a global scale. The Catholic Church tried to stamp out this new wealth with excessive taxation and religious damnation when the new money acquired political power. Lutherian doctrine was seized upon by the new money as anti Catholic and the instrument through which they might break the Catholic's grip on society.

I think Anne Boleyn wasn't just the pretty face and the pair of pert tits popular culture portrays her as. She was a known Lutherian, which means she was desperate to further her family's business interests by levering England away from Papal control. It matters that Dutch Protestants adopted Lutheranism too, to help throw off Catholic Spanish rule. The war between Protestant England and Spain, the thirty years war after that and even the English civil war were all for the same reasons.

The nice example here is when English merchants tried to take on the Dutch commercially. They began to make shed loads of money and became politically influential, dominating parliament. Charles I, Catholic to the core and consequently decadent and fine living at the expense of his subjects, slapped a huge tax on the merchants' ships to pay for his fun. Then the shooting started.

War is business, it's never been anything else and controlling what people think is necessary in order to get away with it. You could argue that in a right wing political system the government is controlled by gangsters, these days in the form of global capitalism. In a left wing system the government are the gangsters.

Sadly, I'm sure people fought wars believing they had truth on their side 500 years ago, just the same as people do now. Who's truth is it?

I know the last thing you want to think about, when you're on line with your hand between your legs, rubbing yourself breathless and sweaty, is how the mechanisms of consumerism enable you to do that, but they do.
 
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I agree that there are more pressing issues right at the moment.
But I don't think that one of them should be used to silence the concern about others.
I can (and do) actively help refugees, and at the same time, be concerned about climate change, gender pay gap and, amongst others, neo-puritanism.
There is no conflict at all, in fact many of them are interconnected in many ways.

Yes, Internet helped a great deal. No more sneaking into seedy porn shops (but that was another kind of fun, as well). And even stupid Hollywood movies helped to bring BDSM and kinky stuff right into mainstream.
But because things are better now, there is no reason at all to let them take away all this.
20 years ago there was no cure for HIV. Now thanks to research and development many people can live with it. Should this research be cancelled, production of medicaments stopped, just because there is Covid now?

Freedom, just like Democracy, is not a fixed state, but a process. And you constantly have to fight for it on many different battlegrounds.
I think there's a big difference between the government banning something and a website deciding that they want to show X but not Y. My books are on Fiction4All and Smashwords but only a couple are on Amazon because they have decided they don't want to run non-consensual stories. Does that make them prudes? I don't know and don't much care. Given that this is niche stuff with limited appeal (let's be honest) any sales would be a rounding error in Jeff Bezos' caviar budget.

The problem for DA is first of all their name, which implies that they welcome stuff that pushes the boundaries, and the fact that they decided without any notification or consultation to kick stuff off. There's no evidence that they did so under pressure from anyone-it seems more like some suit decided they wanted a "cleaner" brand. Had they called themselves "InternetArt" and said no graphic sex or violence from the outset, there wouldn't be this discussion. But a particular website deciding they don't want BDSM stuff is not the beginning of the end of Freedom.
 
I think there's a big difference between the government banning something and a website deciding that they want to show X but not Y. My books are on Fiction4All and Smashwords but only a couple are on Amazon because they have decided they don't want to run non-consensual stories. Does that make them prudes? I don't know and don't much care. Given that this is niche stuff with limited appeal (let's be honest) any sales would be a rounding error in Jeff Bezos' caviar budget.

The problem for DA is first of all their name, which implies that they welcome stuff that pushes the boundaries, and the fact that they decided without any notification or consultation to kick stuff off. There's no evidence that they did so under pressure from anyone-it seems more like some suit decided they wanted a "cleaner" brand. Had they called themselves "InternetArt" and said no graphic sex or violence from the outset, there wouldn't be this discussion. But a particular website deciding they don't want BDSM stuff is not the beginning of the end of Freedom.
I think DA do want BDSM stuff. I've said before that in spite of the purge, shed loads of it is being posted by hundreds of new users everyday and searching BDSM finds more than you can trawl through. The problem isn't graphic sex or violence, it's the issue of consent. In writing, you can write that in and make sure readers know that however brutal the action, your characters are up for it. You have to be very clever to do that graphically. DA assumes death is non consensual, sensibly, so that's an instant ban.

I must say the idea of non consensual worries me. Insisting that it's only fantasy only works in the right company and DA are well aware that a site that big will find users who are offended. I don't mean sanctimonious crusaders who'll have a go at anything edgy or fun, I mean people who've had real life experiences with some of the issues depicted in art like this. Stumbling across artwork which seems to suggest the erotic power in rape is hard to cope with if you've been raped. Some responsibility must lie with the artists who draw rape and torture to protect the sensitive from it.

There's lots of sex on DA. Most of it stays safely on the right side of the art/porn divide and for me, artistic sex is a worthy delight. Porn, all sticky mess and frantic penetration, is a struggle to watch I can do without.

Would you like to post us a link to your books Mr Windar?
 
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