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Milestones

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Eulalia said:
Australia and New Zealand shift their clocks the opposite way to us in the northern hemisphere, of course,
but not at quite the same date as we do it (nor even, I think, the same as each other).
Dunno about countries in Africa and Latin America, north or south of the line.
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The need for daylight saving time is a typical problem for the 45° to 65° latitudes, which have a significant seasonal daylight time variation. North of 67°, above the polar circles, daylight time variation becomes extreme, while south of 45°, the difference in daylight time throughout the seasons becomes smaller and smaller. At the equator, there is hardly any difference.

The problem in countries with daylight saving time is, to my opninion, that solar midday is around 12 a.m., but daily life midday somewhere near 3-4 p.m.
There would be no need for this measure if we would get up early at 4 a.m.., have an English breakfast at 5 a.m., so that we could wait for lunch until noon, we start at work ultimately at 7 a.m. and we go to sleep at latest at 9 p.m.
 
That would be great in Shetland, just over 60° N
(well, hardly the English breakfast :mad:)
On Dec 21 and 22, sun rises 0908, sets 1458;
if we didn't put the clocks back, each would be an hour later.
 
Loxuru said:
There would be no need for this measure if we would get up early at 4 a.m.., have an English breakfast at 5 a.m., so that we could wait for lunch until noon, we start at work ultimately at 7 a.m. and we go to sleep at latest at 9 p.m.
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Eulalia said:
That would be great in Shetland, just over 60° N
(well, hardly the English breakfast :mad:)
On Dec 21 and 22, sun rises 0908, sets 1458;
if we didn't put the clocks back, each would be an hour later.
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Yes an unless it is followed by at least an 8k run an English breakfast will keep me fed for week :D

But as pointed out the problem with DST is more one of latitude than longitude, that is partly why NZ and New South Wales have DSTs that are out of sync and one of the reasons why changing to permanent DST to be closer to Western and Central European time would make sense for England but not so much in Scotland
 
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RacingRodent said:
Yes an unless it is followed by at least an 8k run an English breakfast will keep me fed for week :D

But as pointed out the problem with DST is more one of latitude than longitude, that is partly why NZ and New South Wales have DSTs that are out of sync and one of the reasons why changing to permanent DST to be closer to Western and Central European time would make sense for England but not so much in Scotland
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Should we just go to the pub??? What time is it anyway???
 
Eulalia said:
Australia and New Zealand shift their clocks the opposite way to us in the northern hemisphere, of course,
but not at quite the same date as we do it (nor even, I think, the same as each other).
Dunno about countries in Africa and Latin America, north or south of the line.
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Yes, we in most of Australia have already changed to daylight savings, about 3 or 4 weeks ago.
PP hasn't changed, they do their own thing up in Queensland :p
 
Barbaria1 said:
You're kidding...you mean the whole country doesn't at the same time?
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Not just not at the same time, not at all.
They used to be a bit conservative up there, hence the old joke "we are now landing in Brisbane, please turn your watches back 30 years"

(sorry PP) :D

I've got a feeling I said the same thing last year!
 
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phlebas said:
Not just not at the same time, not at all.
They used to be a bit conservative up there, hence the old joke "we are now landing in Brisbane, please turn your watches back 30 years"

(sorry PP) :D
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I forget how large a place Australia must be ... plenty of room for regional difference, I guess:)
 
Barbaria1 said:
You're kidding...you mean the whole country doesn't at the same time?
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Like most people Barb forgets that Australia is roughly the same size as mainland USA and the whole of Europe fits with plenty of room to spare.

au_usa.jpg australia and europe.jpg​

For most of the year there are four time zones. Australian Eastern Time (UTC + 10 hours), Central Time (30 minutes behind), Central Western Time (1 hour 15 minutes behind) and Western Time (2 hours behind). There are actually a number of other time zones covering our island territories as well as our Antarctic bases.

But then it all gets rather messy come summer when all but Queensland (home to Pp) and Western Australia, physically the two largest states, change to Daylight Saving Time and wind their clocks forward an hour. Both Queensland and WA extend well north into the tropics so daylight saving, as our friendly rodent notes, makes no damned sense at all.
RacingRodent said:
But as pointed out the problem with DST is more one of latitude than longitude, that is partly why NZ and New South Wales have DSTs that are out of sync and one of the reasons why changing to permanent DST to be closer to Western and Central European time would make sense for England but not so much in Scotland
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So it is very like the the US really and, even there not every state chooses the idiocy of daylights savings.

phlebas said:
They used to be a bit conservative up there, hence the old joke "we are now landing in Brisbane, please turn your watches back 30 years"
(sorry PP) :D
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Pp will, quietly, ignore the phlebas reference to those sad old days of a very conservative government and a gerrymander that allowed, effectively, a one party state with as low as 28% of the primary vote and remember, instead, the interstate rugby league results over the last several years :D
 
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Primus pilus said:
Like most people Barb forgets that Australia is roughly the same size as mainland USA and the whole of Europe fits with plenty of room to spare.
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Like many people Pp uses a too narrow definition of Europe :p.
The countries shown in that map aren't even all the EU members (and EU is something very very different from Europe as is becoming more clear every day...)
Missing are for instance... Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia.
Google tells us, a straight line from Brisbane to Perth is about 3600 km, from Darwin to Hobart 3750 km, but from Hammerfest to Gibraltar 4200 km. So whichever way you turn it, even a West-focused definition of Europe will not fit at all inside the outline of Australia ;)
(I don't even bring up the contested issue of the European portion of Russia...)
 
malins said:
Like many people Pp uses a too narrow definition of Europe :p.
The countries shown in that map aren't even all the EU members (and EU is something very very different from Europe as is becoming more clear every day...)
Missing are for instance... Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia.
Google tells us, a straight line from Brisbane to Perth is about 3600 km, from Darwin to Hobart 3750 km, but from Hammerfest to Gibraltar 4200 km. So whichever way you turn it, even a West-focused definition of Europe will not fit at all inside the outline of Australia ;)
(I don't even bring up the contested issue of the European portion of Russia...)
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Still a bit of spare space showing in white on the mainland and nothing at all on the map of Tasmania. Might just need reshaping a few countries and phlebas and Pp can fit a few more in :p.
 
malins said:
'Reshaping a few countries' in Europe is a risky enterprise, not just in the past.
Will Australia accept the refugees from Europe after some reshaping goes wrong?
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Please do not get Pp started on the current Australian Government's policies (and those of the Opposition) towards refugees or asylum seekers.
 
malins said:
(I don't even bring up the contested issue of the European portion of Russia...)
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And not to mention Sicily, Malta, Crete, Rhodes and Cyprus, missing in the south and southeast. All EU territory too. Cyprus would be way offshore Canberra! Distance Athens-Cyprus about 900 km.


Primus pilus said:
Pp will, quietly, ignore the phlebas reference to those sad old days of a very conservative government and a gerrymander that allowed, effectively, a one party state with as low as 28% of the primary vote and remember, instead, the interstate rugby league results over the last several years :D
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phlebas said:
They used to be a bit conservative up there, hence the old joke "we are now landing in Brisbane, please turn your watches back 30 years"
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"Neighbours, everybody needs good neighbours With a little understanding, you can find the perfect blend
Neighbours, should be there for one another That's when good neighbours become good friends "

Comes from Australia, doesn't it?:)
 
No doubt about this place is there? Always plenty keen to correct anything and everything.

But, if we want to include the French territories spread across the globe then lets also include the 5.8 million or so square kilometres of the Australian Antarctic Territory. Davis and Mawson stations, at the northern edge of the AAT are almost 9000 km south from Cape York and still about 5500 km south from Hobart.

Time to leave this now.
 
Primus pilus said:
No doubt about this place is there? Always plenty keen to correct anything and everything.

But, if we want to include the French territories spread across the globe then lets also include the 5.8 million or so square kilometres of the Australian Antarctic Territory. Davis and Mawson stations, at the northern edge of the AAT are almost 9000 km south from Cape York and still about 5500 km south from Hobart.

Time to leave this now.
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What did you get cold feet from chipping in the Australian Antarctic? :p
 
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