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The Coffee Shop

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Hugin&Munin said:
I hope you're doing well @ Eulalia and the flooding from all the rain didn't cause too much damage.
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Thanks - we got off very lightly - strong winds on Friday, we were cut off overnight with several trees down across the road, but otherwise no problems. But if was bad over on the east side, as expected, and also down in England where there was less advance warning - and the major rivers are still flooding after the tremendous rain, it will take some days before the danger's past. I don't think any of our friends here are in places that have been badly hit, hope not!
 
Eulalia said:
Thanks - we got off very lightly - strong winds on Friday, we were cut off overnight with several trees down across the road, but otherwise no problems. But it was bad over on the east side, as expected, and also down in England where there was less advance warning - and the major rivers are still flooding after the tremendous rain, it will take some days before the danger's past. I don't think any of our friends here are in places that have been badly hit, hope not!
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I had just seen a BBC report on You Tube last night from yesterday and it looked bad, all the flooding, so I wanted to ask.
 
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Naraku said:
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Mmmm ... anybody using Star Wars (in any of the films or books) as examples of good combat and military tactics needs their head examined.

Most of the light sabre fights are so obviously staged for the camera that the moves are telegraphed seconds in advance and look slow and stilted compared to real sword play. (e.g. Keeping up with the speed and moves of an epee or sabre bout can be difficult even for expert onlookers).

And the number of times I've seen infantry troops on foot charge fixed defended positions, rather than look for outflanking and/or deceptive opportunities, and use artillery support, armoured thrusts, air support and the like is disheartening.

Star Wars is good movie material but bad military and combat material.
 
I always wondered why almost everyone wields the lightsaber as a two handed weapon. It's a light saber; the blade is made of light. The only weight is in the hilt and that's not much. It should be easily wielded one handed, like a rapier or a...well...a saber. (The reason is that Lucas was inspired by samurai movies and the katana is a two handed weapon)
 
FrankO said:
Mmmm ... anybody using Star Wars (in any of the films or books) as examples of good combat and military tactics needs their head examined.

Most of the light sabre fights are so obviously staged for the camera that the moves are telegraphed seconds in advance and look slow and stilted compared to real sword play. (e.g. Keeping up with the speed and moves of an epee or sabre bout can be difficult even for expert onlookers).

And the number of times I've seen infantry troops on foot charge fixed defended positions, rather than look for outflanking and/or deceptive opportunities, and use artillery support, armoured thrusts, air support and the like is disheartening.

Star Wars is good movie material but bad military and combat material.
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As an advid fencer in younger days, I can attest to the immediacy of the bouts.
Quite kinetic.
I‘ve fought all three traditional styles, foil, saber and epee, finding saber the most challenging to master and foil my most natural but that’s due to my physical build.
Just my opinion on Katanas but I don’t see them as dueling weapons but more that of a one strike ceremonial execution tool.
Descending from the uchiingatana and the. tachi, more a horseback saber and longer in the past.
I’ve seen a few from the Second World War, being family heirlooms and not knowing exact age but older that the 40s…not much chipped or battle worn.

The light saber fights are fun to watch as the blades flare about, very much like martial art bouts.
Similarly, many Second World War vets I had spoken to were warned how the martial arts were a danger to come up against in the Pacific but it was not the case and tradition fighting made quick work of their opponents.

It is interesting to note that once in a while, the light sabers were wielded one handed briefly by most of the formidable foes, Dooku and Vader but I digress and am revealing my inner geek.




 
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captivecuties said:
As an advid fencer in younger days, I can attest to the immediacy of the bouts.
Quite kinetic.
I‘ve fought all three traditional styles, foil, saber and epee, finding saber the most challenging to master and foil my most natural but that’s due to my physical build.
Just my opinion on Katanas but I don’t see them as dueling weapons but more that of a one strike ceremonial execution tool.
Descending from the uchiingatana and the. tachi, more a horseback saber and longer in the past.
I’ve seen a few from the Second World War, being family heirlooms and not knowing exact age but older that the 40s…not much chipped or battle worn.

The light saber fights are fun to watch as the blades flare about, very much like martial art bouts.
Similarly, many Second World War vets I had spoken to were warned how the martial arts were a danger to come up against in the Pacific but it was not the case and tradition fighting made quick work of their opponents.

It is interesting to note that once in a while, the light sabers were wielded one handed briefly by most of the formidable foes, Dooku and Vader but I digress and am revealing my inner geek.




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Notice in the second one, that Dooku had the high ground and still lost?;)
 
Oh come on I think we can agree that most fighting or battle orders in fantasy / space opera are simply meant to look like reimaginations of stereotypes.

If you see a 'space battle' with lots of tightly curving 'fighters' in visual range of each other, the main weapon being onboard 'guns' and the main job of the pilot being to manually position his craft so that the pew-pews that first narrowly streak beside the enemy craft, finally get centered on him and then he goes kaboom... really you are looking at nothing but an idealized imgaination of a ww2 era dogfight

Now if someone makes the claim their scenario is 'historically realistic' if it's something like medievalesque fantasy... or 'what military action in space wouold have to look like' given a certain set of defined assumptions, by all means tear into them for any inconsistency. But mostly that isn't even the intent.

real space battle one would assume would be concerned very much with: how far away can you detect an enemy craft, without being detected yourself.
 
Eulalia said:
It's evidently based on Ibn Fadlan's famous account of the funeral of a Rus Viking chieftain on the Volga,
but hasn't got quite the gutsy sexuality of Delacroix's Death of Sardanapalus - here's Ibn Fadlan:

The dead chieftain was put in a temporary grave which was covered for ten days until they had sewn new clothes for him. One of his thrall women volunteered to join him in the afterlife and she was guarded day and night, being given a great amount of intoxicating drinks while she sang happily. When the time had arrived for cremation, they pulled his longship ashore and put it on a platform of wood, and they made a bed for the dead chieftain on the ship. Thereafter, an old woman referred to as the “Angel of Death” put cushions on the bed. She was responsible for the ritual. Then they disinterred the chieftain and gave him new clothes. In his grave, he received intoxicating drinks, fruits and a stringed instrument. The chieftain was put into his bed with all his weapons and grave offerings around him. Then they had two horses run themselves sweaty, cut them to pieces, and threw the meat into the ship. Finally, they sacrificed a hen and a cock.

Meanwhile, the thrall girl went from one tent to the other and had sexual intercourse with the men. Every man told her “tell your master that I did this because of my love to him”. While in the afternoon, they moved the thrall girl to something that looked like a door frame, where she was lifted on the palms of the men three times. Every time, the girl told of what she saw. The first time, she saw her father and mother, the second time, she saw all her relatives, and the third time she saw her master in the afterworld. There, it was green and beautiful and together with him, she saw men and young boys. She saw that her master beckoned for her. By using intoxicating drinks, they thought to put the thrall girl in an ecstatic trance that made her psychic and through the symbolic action with the door frame, she would then see into the realm of the dead. [The same ritual also appears in the Icelandic short story Völsa þáttr where two pagan Norwegian men lift the lady of the household over a door frame to help her look into the otherworld.]

Thereafter, the thrall girl was taken away to the ship. She removed her bracelets and gave them to the old woman. Thereafter she removed her finger rings and gave them to the old woman’s daughters, who had guarded her. Then they took her aboard the ship, but they did not allow her to enter the tent where the dead chieftain lay. The girl received several vessels of intoxicating drinks and she sang and bade her friends farewell.

Then the girl was pulled into the tent and the men started to beat on the shields so her screams could not be heard. Six men entered into the tent to have intercourse with the girl, after which they put her onto her master’s bed. Two men grabbed her hands and two men her wrists. The angel of death put a rope around her neck and while two men pulled the rope, the old woman stabbed the girl between her ribs with a knife. Thereafter, the relatives of the dead chieftain arrived with a burning torch and set the ship aflame. It is said that the fire facilitates the voyage to the realm of the dead, but unfortunately, the account does not tell to which realm the deceased was to go.

Afterwards, a round barrow was built over the ashes and in the center of the mound they erected a staff of birch wood, where they carved the names of the dead chieftain and his king. Then they departed in their ships.
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As soon as I read Ibn Fadlan, I was reminded of this:
The 13th Warrior is a 1999 American historical fictionaction film based on Michael Crichton's 1976 novel Eaters of the Dead,[5] which is a loose adaptation of the tale of Beowulf combined with Ahmad ibn Fadlan's historical account of the Volga Vikings.

Neat but I expect no less of this Laureate on a Leash!
 
malins said:
Oh come on I think we can agree that most fighting or battle orders in fantasy / space opera are simply meant to look like reimaginations of stereotypes.

If you see a 'space battle' with lots of tightly curving 'fighters' in visual range of each other, the main weapon being onboard 'guns' and the main job of the pilot being to manually position his craft so that the pew-pews that first narrowly streak beside the enemy craft, finally get centered on him and then he goes kaboom... really you are looking at nothing but an idealized imgaination of a ww2 era dogfight

Now if someone makes the claim their scenario is 'historically realistic' if it's something like medievalesque fantasy... or 'what military action in space wouold have to look like' given a certain set of defined assumptions, by all means tear into them for any inconsistency. But mostly that isn't even the intent.

real space battle one would assume would be concerned very much with: how far away can you detect an enemy craft, without being detected yourself.
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First, hello, denizens of the coffee shop. I am not seen here very often, perhaps once every couple of years, I'll have a long black thanks (ie a black coffee, for those who don't speak 21st century Australian English. I am a native 20th century Australian English speaker - I'm, faking it).

Right, where was I? Ah yes. Space battles, without a doubt always and I mean always a load of complete codswallop in film and TV. Have you seen how close together space craft always appear? Look at Battlestar Galactica, or Star Trek, or any other show with a fleet in it, they are rammed together like bloomin' sardines. To quote Douglas Adams "Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space."

captivecuties said:
As soon as I read Ibn Fadlan, I was reminded of this:
The 13th Warrior is a 1999 American historical fictionaction film based on Michael Crichton's 1976 novel Eaters of the Dead,[5] which is a loose adaptation of the tale of Beowulf combined with Ahmad ibn Fadlan's historical account of the Volga Vikings.

Neat but I expect no less of this Laureate on a Leash!
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I really like that book. He took Ibn Fadlan, Beowulf, and the possibility that non homo sapiens sapiens humans may have survived into historical times and given rise to numerous myths and legends. The early editions even have notes that make out the story is based on real accounts, later editions make clear it is a fiction. The movie? Well, full marks for having a go but a bit of a disappointment really. The "grendel" were just modern humans in furs, not some other branch of the homo sapiens line. The sword forging scene was a joke, and the learning of fluent Norse simply from sitting by the campfire every night was dubious. I did like the inclusion of the Volga funeral scene though, we see so little real early medieval colour on our screens.
 
phlebas said:
Have you seen how close together space craft always appear? Look at Battlestar Galactica, or Star Trek, or any other show with a fleet in it, they are rammed together like bloomin' sardines.
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And if you're head to head with an enemy, and you can't get past going forward, there's nothing you can do. You certainly couldn't move in 3 dimensions or anything. :rolleyes: :devil:
 
didn't really know where to put this but as we all like seeing women in peril and other stuff this might tickle some fantasies. It's current WWE wrestler asuka against minoru Suzuki who's know for a stiff wrestling style, so every blow is real
 
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